Originally posted by twhitehead
To claim that there is no better delusion is avoidance.
Because the delusion being offered is better than the one you currently use.
[b]christianity has as much probablity of being the one true religion as islam or budhism. and what can you give me more than christianity? a jesus that offers cookies in addition to eternal life?
My question was based on the supposition that I could offer you a better d er in that entity getting into heaven. As I said - it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.[/b]
i am perfectly happy with this one. but do try and come up with a better one, i am open
since you already admit that your belief that he was the son of God is delusional anyway
when did i do that?
Presumably the first two would prove the last,
If the bible would ask me to believe in god's rapist murderous son, i would take up a new religion. if satan was the only god available i would be an atheist. even if you knew for a fact that god is a murderous evil entity i would not worship him. i would believe because it is a fact but not worship him. the first two don't disprove the last.
Essentially you end up admitting that Jesus' 'sacrifice' amounted to little more than letting himself be crucified just as an example of someone being crucified. Doesn't really make any sense now does it?
why doesn't make sense? to whom doesn't it make sense? are you perhaps talking about the camel humping savages of those days? the romans, the most civilized people on the planet at the time had barbers and toilets and baths and oh yeah, killed gladiators and christians and slaves for sadistic pleasure. so do you think "he died for your sins and was resurrected" would have the same PR value as "he talked about being nice to each other, married, had 6 kidz and died of old age".
not to mention that i said "i can accept it wasn't really necessary" as in i don't actually accept it. but even from an atheist point of view it has the merits i mentioned.
Besides you will quite easily loose to a typical egotistical person who believes the universe revolves around them. Why not go for egoism if meaning is what you crave?
odds are great you will wind up in the great barbecue. although i wish heaven for everyone, though murderers and mormons and scientologists must be kept in the slums of heaven, i may not be right. so to be safe, be good.
and lose what? i was discussing the atheist argument you can lead a good, fulfilling, meaningful life without religion. and i said that religion, responsible religion adds a bonus. we are discussing the use of religion not acts considered to disqualify someone from a pleasant afterlife
So it gives you a feeling of meaning that you think feels more meaningful than an atheists feeling of meaning
i would be curious how you formed this wonderful nonsense out of what i said.
But even the most basic thinking about it results in the realization that it is little more than wishful thinking.
Bingo! Yahtzee! Gin! Straight flush! you got it. this is what religion is all about. it is wishful thinking. or as we non-pagans like to call it, faith. faith is hoping for something to be true even if you have no or very little proof. faith that jesus is the son of god. faith that mohammed was the prophet of allah. faith. we don't know for sure. we can only guess. and believe or not what holy books say. and the amount we believe.
science, the religion of atheists, cannot use wishful thinking. i tried that whenever i had some math papers. "man i wish it were true that 2=1 then mah result would make sense". scientists cannot make a god powered vehicle. scientists cannot assume that god is real and from then form new theories. (that is why i call creationists pseudo-scientists which even that is a kind name). religious folks don't have those restrictions.
warning, i am again debating from an atheists point of view: if a religious person doesn't bet all his money on a horse in hopes god will make it win, if he doesn't let his children die rather than get a transfusion, if he doesn't behead his daughter, how different is he from an atheist? if a christian doctor praises jesus and feels happy when he saves a kid, is he any less of a person than the atheist doctor who just feels happy when he saves a kid? what difference is there between the two?
If you tried to describe to me exactly who or what would actually get the so called 'afterlife' you talk about you would soon realize that it wasn't you and you probably have no interest whatsoever in that entity getting into heaven
we don't know. faith, remember. all we can do is do our best. that is what everyone should be doing, atheists included. do our best to do good. i like to think that my loving god would not let a good muslim or a buddhist go to hell. but i don't know. christianity suits me and i believe firmly that the j man is the son of god which exists and created the universe(s). this belief will not get me fired or not hired at a job. will not make me starve or win any money. will not get me a date. it does give me a warm tingling feeling. which is very comforting.