25 Jul '14 14:57>
Originally posted by vivifyYes, he does. Obviously most people who have given it some thought do not define omnipotence that way.
I haven't seen the vid, but does the speaker say something like "can God make a burrito too spicy for him to eat and then it"? Or ask if God can make a circular square, or perform other self-contradicting feats?
Originally posted by vivifyThe definition of a square is four equal length straight line segments perpendicular to one another and linked at their end points. The definition of a circle is a curve all of whose points are equidistant from its centre. Simply select your background geometry so that a square has all it's points equidistant from it's centre.
I haven't seen the vid, but does the speaker say something like "can God make a burrito too spicy for him to eat and then it"? Or ask if God can make a circular square, or perform other self-contradicting feats?
Originally posted by vivifyNo, he's not actually. He's pointing out that to be omnipotent is to be able to do anything
I haven't seen the vid, but does the speaker say something like "can God make a burrito too spicy for him to eat and then it"? Or ask if God can make a circular square, or perform other self-contradicting feats?
Originally posted by C HessNo, he is not 'pointing it out' he is defining it that way. It is not the only possible definition - as I said it is not even the most reasonable definition
He's pointing out that to be omnipotent is to be able to do anything
that is logically possible, but not what is logically impossible.
Originally posted by C HessSince he's taking a non-absolute form of omnipotence, specifically one where God cannot do anything contradictory I don't see why there should be a contradiction. Possibly he's defined omnipotence in a way which contains a contradiction and needs to revise his definition so it does not.
No, he's not actually. He's pointing out that to be omnipotent is to be able to do anything
that is logically possible, but not what is logically impossible. Then he goes on to show that
omnipotence itself is logically impossible, since it's a paradox, self-contradiction.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI think it's reasonable enough. A being that can do the logically impossible (such as both
No, he is not 'pointing it out' he is defining it that way. It is not the only possible definition - as I said it is not even the most reasonable definition
Originally posted by DeepThoughtHe is saying that an omnipotent being can do anything as long as it's logically possible,
Since he's taking a non-absolute form of omnipotence, specifically one where God cannot do anything contradictory I don't see why there should be a contradiction. Possibly he's defined omnipotence in a way which contains a contradiction and needs to revise his definition so it does not.
Originally posted by C HessMaking an even less sensible definition doesn't justify his definition.
I think it's reasonable enough. A being that can do the logically impossible (such as both
exist and not exist at the same time - or create itself before it exists so that it can exist)
makes even less sense than a being that can do anything, but only as long as it's logically
possible.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't think so. Consider other definitions. Any one of them would have to include further
...as I have said several times, this is of little importance because most theists do not use either definition when they talk of omnipotence.
He is using a strawman argument.
Originally posted by C HessI think a reasonable definition would be one that could do anything that didn't result in a contradiction. So God could not for example make something both existent and non-existent at the same time even though it could do both individually.
I don't think so. Consider other definitions. Any one of them would have to include further
restrictions on what an omnipotent being can do, limiting its power.
Originally posted by C HessGod defines Himself.
Not exactly news, but I love how he presents it.
Omnipotence Fails. Period.: http://youtu.be/95xXt0D0SQ8