Originally posted by robbie carrobiethe sea rose up and tiny sea horses were formed from the crests of waves carrying my upon their backs to my destiny beyond the ocean edge.
yeah only yesterday i saw a mermaid, 'come to Atlantis', she beckoned, i have a kingdom beyond the oceans edge, as i took the first tentative steps towards the ocean, enchanted by her song accompanied on a whalebone harp, the sea rose up and tiny sea horses were formed from the crests of waves carrying my upon their backs to my destiny beyond the ocean edge.
Good riddance. I did appreciate your taste in music, though.
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Originally posted by LemonJelloHow vewy intwesting, do you detect a hint of some musical group carefully concealed in the wording? (it is there if you look for it) Dont worry ol Lemony Jellow, i wont leave to be devoured by great learning, ill come back for you once i grow a hole in the head that helps me breathe 🙂
[b]the sea rose up and tiny sea horses were formed from the crests of waves carrying my upon their backs to my destiny beyond the ocean edge.
Good riddance. I did appreciate your taste in music, though.[/b]
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI have always been on to your musical leanings, which again are tolerable. I gave up on you a long time ago in the intellectual integrity department.
How vewy intwesting, do you detect a hint of some musical group carefully concealed in the wording? (it is there if you look for it) Dont worry ol Lemony Jellow, i wont leave to be devoured by great learning, ill come back for you once i grow a hole in the head that helps me breathe 🙂
Originally posted by robbie carrobieTruth is stranger than fiction.
yeah only yesterday i saw a mermaid, 'come to Atlantis', she beckoned, i have a kingdom beyond the oceans edge, as i took the first tentative steps towards the ocean, enchanted by her song accompanied on a whalebone harp, the sea rose up and tiny sea horses were formed from the crests of waves carrying my upon their backs to my destiny beyond the ocean edge.
Originally posted by LemonJelloWhy thankyou i am quite sure you are a person of taste and culture no doubt, as for intellectual integrity, its realpolitik here, one does what one must to substantiate ones claims 🙂
I have always been on to your musical leanings, which again are tolerable. I gave up on you a long time ago in the intellectual integrity department.
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Originally posted by karoly aczelTruth is generally substantiated or corroborated in some way, here you have proffered a speculative 'truth', forged on the basis of a hunch and a rather colourful one at that i may hasten to add. Its hardly consistent to express it in such adamant terms and then claim, we dont know. Shall we ask what evidence you have of these half men half dolphins? Shall we ask what evidence you have of extraterrestrial beings? After examining the evidence shall we be inclined to state, wow, that was overwhelming, it must be true?
Truth is stranger than fiction.
Originally posted by twhiteheadSorry tw, but I do discuss differing points that are direct to the subject. I did not flee. I do at times, give up however. Its just that to answer your plethora of points, point by point, it would be a forum tome. As I said some are valid. But they are often peripheral or denying over-defensiveness to the main concept of the OP. in my opinion.
And your answers impress as a fine instance of fundamentalist religious attitude.
They have a pattern too:
1. You wont discuss any points that go against your beliefs.
2. I point out serious errors in your arguments and instead of trying to deal with them you ignore them and repeat the strawmen / errors over and over.
3. Instead of providing any ac ...[text shortened]... erved - and that something follows a discernible pattern but does not follow any laws.
Awareness exists, or do you dispute that too? It is telling that it is very rare to hear you acknowledge anything positive in this area at all.
It is a well known scientific conundrum about the nature of consciousness and its source. It cannot be measured and examined. Our difference is that because that is so, it does not mean that it is not worthy of examination and exploration as far as we can do so. It does not mean necessarily that it does not exist differing from its apparent form.
And it does not mean the history of inner human exploration is without validity, particularly in view of the fact similar conclusions have been drawn (or discovered) and from quite different cultures and modes of expression. But unfortunately according to some scientists this most central aspect of human living is worthy of ignore and hope the problem goes away.
It is one of the most central aspects necessary for our perception, our life qualities and enjoyment, even to the conduct of science itself. But where does it arise? And how might it be active in the whole saga of evolution, from the very beginning?
Can you not see that, if true, it would answer many scientific conundrums and on that possibilty alone is worthy of exploration in a manner different to the manner of exploring the physical aspect? There is nothing factual that either you nor I can produce that can prove it one way or another, yet I say let's explore it because of its possible huge significance, and you, like many scientists continue to ignore it and state there is insufficient reason to do so. There is not the slightest acknowledgement that there might be something significant in the inner explorations of mankind worthy of exploration. I maintain you, and they, are wrong in such a stance.
We must again remain in serious difference of opinion.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNah, I have no "evidence".
Truth is generally substantiated or corroborated in some way, here you have proffered a speculative 'truth', forged on the basis of a hunch and a rather colourful one at that i may hasten to add. Its hardly consistent to express it in such adamant terms and then claim, we dont know. Shall we ask what evidence you have of these half men half dolphin ...[text shortened]... ining the evidence shall we be inclined to state, wow, that was overwhelming, it must be true?
I just like stories I resonate with.
Dont you? 😉
To Twhitehead,
Even thought the scientist haven't got everything right,
they are getting closer to the truth. If you don't split
hairs, the Biblical view of the order of created life on
earth is very close to the accepted scientific view today,
realizing the Biblical view is not very detailed. There
was no need, thousands of years ago, to note bacteria
or such things that we can't fully understand today.
That would just complcate matters and make it all too
confusing.
RJHinds
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo, bear in mind, when I put up something on here, its not because its the first tall story I've come across.
Yes I do, indeed its a phenomena that when a certain element resonates at a certain frequency other elements nearby may also resonate in harmony with it 🙂
It's because, for whatever strangea$$ reason I believe it.
And as soon as it is disproven, I will drop it.
(And I know the burden of proof is on me, hence why I say its a story, much like biblical stories)
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Originally posted by karoly aczelyes except the Biblical stories have corroborating scientific, historical, archaeological and sociological evidence, but whose splitting hairs. 😉 But i dont want to detract from Toamans main thrust for he makes some rather excellent points.
So, bear in mind, when I put up something on here, its not because its the first tall story I've come across.
It's because, for whatever strangea$$ reason I believe it.
And as soon as it is disproven, I will drop it.
(And I know the burden of proof is on me, hence why I say its a story, much like biblical stories)
Originally posted by RJHindsBut do you agree that the scientific 'order' and the Biblical order are not in agreement as you originally claimed?
To Twhitehead,
Even thought the scientist haven't got everything right,
they are getting closer to the truth. If you don't split
hairs, the Biblical view of the order of created life on
earth is very close to the accepted scientific view today,
realizing the Biblical view is not very detailed. There
was no need, thousands of years ago, to note bact ...[text shortened]... derstand today.
That would just complcate matters and make it all too
confusing.
RJHinds
To refresh your memory, the very second post of this thread states:
It is my understanding that modern science
agees with the Holy Bible on the order of creation
of living things. Is this not so?
RJHinds
Do you now agree with my response that "It is not so."?
What was the purpose of your original claim? What were you really trying to say and does it still have any substance now that your original claim is shown to be false?
Will you not make the claim in future now that you know it is false?
Originally posted by TaomanWell you seem remarkably reluctant to admit that the main argument in your OP is a strawman and flawed in a number of ways.
Sorry tw, but I do discuss differing points that are direct to the subject. I did not flee.
Do you admit that:
1. The argument that RNA molecules appeared by pure chance is a strawman?
2. You took several quotes from famous people out of context to try and support your possition?
3. You accuse the scientific community of not looking into your hypothesis when this is not only not true, but not required of them anyway?
4. Your hypothesis does not 'explain' anything but seeks to hide the real problem.
I do at times, give up however. Its just that to answer your plethora of points, point by point, it would be a forum tome.
Well why not at least try to deal with the main ones. Once you realize that your OP started with a massive strawman you should probably restate your position in a more defensible way then we can discuss that. I have already suggested you state your position in terms of the Mandelbro set.
Awareness exists, or do you dispute that too?
What do you mean by 'awareness'? Are you saying 'I am aware' or 'the universe is aware'?
What do you mean by 'exists'?
I would agree that I am aware.
It is telling that it is very rare to hear you acknowledge anything positive in this area at all.
I will readily acknowledge anything that I believe to be true. Make a list of what you think I haven't acknowledged and should, and I will either dispute it or acknowledge it.
It is a well known scientific conundrum about the nature of consciousness and its source. It cannot be measured and examined.
Nonsense. Consciousness can be measured and examined.
Our difference is that because that is so, it does not mean that it is not worthy of examination and exploration as far as we can do so.
You are contradicting yourself now. Either it can be examined or it cant. If it is 'worthy of examination and exploration' then it must be possible to examine it - but you just claimed we can't.
Can you not see that, if true, it would answer many scientific conundrums .....
No, I can't. Religion does not answer any questions, it hides them.
There is nothing factual that either you nor I can produce that can prove it one way or another,...
Why not? I am curious as to why you keep putting in that clause. Its a very religious sort of clause.
There is not the slightest acknowledgement that there might be something significant in the inner explorations of mankind worthy of exploration
What are these 'inner explorations of mankind' that you keep referring too? I don't understand.
We must again remain in serious difference of opinion.
Largely, I think because we are not understanding each other. I suspect that your real issues are not what is stated in the OP and not what I am arguing against.
I am not saying "there is not God", I am saying "the reasons for believing in a God stated in the OP are not valid".
Originally posted by sonhouseDolphins do not play chess nor do they split hairs on science or metaphysics on RHP forums. They do not mud-sling or adopt hoity toity pseudo-scientific attitudes. Surely they are lower level creatures.
The idea we are the king of thinking emotional beings on this planet has yet to be proven. Don't forget Dolphins have brain/body mass ratios higher than humans and since we have yet to decipher their language, we don't know anything about their emotional attainments.