One big step on the road to artificial life:

Originally posted by black beetle
It is not religious, for this kind of energy is not "conscious" the way a religionist accepts that "god" is;

I stand corrected!
I mean that this kind of energy is not "consious" the way a religious person accepts that "god" is;

Originally posted by black beetle
I stand corrected!
I mean that this kind of energy is not "consious" the way a religious person accepts that "god" is;

“But to whom can you people liken me so that I should be made his equal?” says the Holy One. “Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing.'' - Isaiah 40:25

Scientists have demonstrated that matter and energy are closely related and that matter can be converted into energy and energy into matter. As seen in nuclear explosions, a small amount of matter represents a huge amount of energy, thus when one reflects on this, the idea of an impotent old man, with a large beard seems, somehow quite distant.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
“But to whom can you people liken me so that I should be made his equal?” says the Holy One. “Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of [b]dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of ...[text shortened]... cts on this, the idea of an impotent old man, with a large beard seems, somehow quite distant.[/b]

Hey robbie,

the relation of energy and matter are well known to the ancient Human way long before he became a scientist. He took wood and he had fire, and he had the mind to understand that that wood is wood and the fire is fire. The conversion of matter into energy is not a holy procedure but a natural phainomenon, but he could not grasp it, so he worshiped whatever, wood and fire included; however there is no need to worship neither the wood nor the fire as "god", that is;

So I told Fabian that gravity, just like wood and fire, is a natural phainomenon; and it contains not "consiousness" the way a "religion" attributes to its "god". As you quoted, Isaiah said that "god" "created" (every emanation of phainomena and Life) "due to the abundance of dynamic energy". "Not one of them is missing" seems to me that is said in order to clarify that within "them" are included also the physical laws. Gravity is just a physical law and not a "god" for Isaiah.

Nothing Holy😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Hey robbie,

the relation of energy and matter are well known to the ancient Human way long before he became a scientist. He took wood and he had fire, and he had the mind to understand that that wood is wood and the fire is fire. The conversion of matter into energy is not a holy procedure but a natural phainomenon, but he could not grasp it, so he w ...[text shortened]... Gravity is just a physical law and not a "god" for Isaiah.

Nothing Holy😵

yes beetle this is entirely sound and correct, these forces and natural phenomena that you mention are as far as we are concerned, 'impersonal forces', in that they in themselves are utterly devoid of consciousness. the reference to dynamic energy , was merely to show, that as far as i understand it, everything in the universe, whether its matter, whatever, is energy in one form or another, and what binds it all together is also energy, thus a creationist will say this is what one would expect from a 'God', abundant in dynamic energy!

As for the reference to making fire and wood into a god, i provide a similar biblical reference, not because i m preaching to you, no no, that would never do, just to show the similarity to your own reasoning, for it concerns making into a God, these inanimate entities.


There is one whose business is to cut down cedars; and he takes a certain species of tree, even a massive tree, and he lets it become strong for himself among the trees of the forest. He planted the laurel tree, and the pouring rain itself keeps making it get big. And it has become something for man to keep a fire burning. So he takes part of it that he may warm himself. In fact he builds a fire and actually bakes bread. He also works on a god to which he may bow down. He has made it into a carved image, and he prostrates himself to it. Half of it he actually burns up in a fire. Upon half of it he roasts well the flesh that he eats, and he becomes satisfied. He also warms himself and says: “Aha! I have warmed myself. I have seen the firelight.” But the remainder of it he actually makes into a god itself, into his carved image. He prostrates himself to it and bows down and prays to it and says: “Deliver me, for you are my god.”

They have not come to know, nor do they understand, because their eyes have been besmeared so as not to see, their heart so as to have no insight. And no one recalls to his heart or has knowledge or understanding, saying: “The half of it I have burned up in a fire, and upon its coals I have also baked bread; I roast flesh and eat. But the rest of it shall I make into a mere detestable thing? To the dried-out wood of a tree shall I prostrate myself?” He is feeding on ashes. His own heart that has been trifled with has led him astray. And he does not deliver his soul, nor does he say: “Is there not a falsehood in my right hand?”

Isaiah 44:14-20

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes beetle this is entirely sound and correct, these forces and natural phenomena that you mention are as far as we are concerned, 'impersonal forces', in that they in themselves are utterly devoid of consciousness. the reference to dynamic energy , was merely to show, that as far as i understand it, everything in the universe, whether its matter, w ...[text shortened]... r his soul, nor does he say: “Is there not a falsehood in my right hand?”

Isaiah 44:14-20

Thank you my trusty feer!

Again I saw I am wise
for I can learn from everybody😵