1. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    01 May '10 04:42
    Originally posted by darvlay
    There are many possible interpretations of that verse from the original Hebrew:

    Yahweh Elohim Yahweh echad

    Possibilities:
    Yahweh (is) our God, Yahweh alone.
    Yahweh our God (is) one Yahweh.
    Yahweh our God, Yahweh (is) one.
    Yahweh (is) our God, Yahweh (is) one.

    Your guess is as good as mine. Why not ask God yourself and see what he tells you?

    Source: http://www.wcg.org/lit/God/deut64.htm
    God: More than a million? And one Yahweh is Yahweh our God. I think Yahweh our God Yahweh is a lot of things. And our God Yahweh is one is Yahweh.

    http://www.titane.ca/concordia/dfar251/igod/main.html
  2. Standard membergalveston75
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    03 May '10 04:48
    Who Is “the Only True God”?
    JESUS often prayed to God, whom he called Father, and he also taught others to do so. (Matthew 6:9-11; Luke 11:1, 2) In prayer with his apostles—only hours before his death—Jesus petitioned: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you. This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:1, 3.
    Notice that Jesus prays to One whom he calls “the only true God.” He points to God’s superior position when he continues: “So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.” (John 17:5) Since Jesus prayed to God requesting to be alongside God, how could Jesus at the same time be “the only true God”? Let us examine this matter.
    Jesus’ Position in Heaven
    A few hours after this prayer, Jesus was executed. But he was not dead for long—only from Friday afternoon till Sunday morning. (Matthew 27:57–28:6) “This Jesus God resurrected,” the apostle Peter reports, “of which fact we are all witnesses.” (Acts 2:31, 32) Could Jesus have resurrected himself? No, according to the Bible, the dead “are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) “The only true God,” Jesus’ heavenly Father, resurrected his Son.—Acts 2:32; 10:40.
    A short time afterward, Jesus’ disciple Stephen was killed by religious persecutors. As they were about to stone him, Stephen was granted a vision. He stated: “Look! I behold the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.” (Acts 7:56) Jesus, “the Son of man,” was thus seen by Stephen in a role supportive to God in heaven—“at God’s right hand”—even as he had been ‘alongside God’ before he came to earth.—John 17:5.
    Later, after Stephen’s execution, Jesus made a miraculous appearance to Saul, better known by his Roman name, Paul. (Acts 9:3-6) When Paul was in Athens, Greece, he spoke of “the God that made the world and all the things in it.” He said that this God, the “only true God,” will “judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has furnished a guarantee to all men in that he has resurrected him from the dead.” (Acts 17:24, 31) Here the apostle Paul described Jesus as “a man”—yes, lesser than God—whom God had restored to life in heaven.
    The apostle John too described Jesus as subordinate to God. John said that he had written his Gospel so that readers might come to believe that “Jesus is the Christ the Son of God”—not that he was God. (John 20:31) John also received a heavenly vision in which he saw “the Lamb,” who in his Gospel is identified as Jesus. (John 1:29) The Lamb is standing with 144,000 others, who John says “have been bought [or resurrected] from the earth.” John explains that the 144,000 have the Lamb’s “name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.”—Revelation 14:1, 3.
    Could “the Lamb” be the same as “his Father”? Clearly not. In the Bible they are distinct. They even have different names.
    Name of the Lamb and of the Father
    As we have just seen, the name given to God’s Son, the Lamb, is Jesus. (Luke 1:30-32) What about his Father’s name? It appears in the Bible thousands of times. For example, Psalm 83:18 says: “You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” Sadly, God’s name, Jehovah, has been replaced in many Bible translations by the terms “LORD” and “GOD,” often spelled in all capital letters. The capitals are supposed to distinguish Jehovah from others called gods or lords. Yet, in many Bible translations, the Divine Name has been restored to its rightful place.
    The English-language American Standard Version (1901) is a notable example of a Bible translation that has restored God’s name, Jehovah, to its rightful place. Its preface observes: “The American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament, as it fortunately does not in the numerous versions made by modern missionaries.”
    The Trinity—Whose Teaching?
    What, then, about the teaching that Jehovah and Jesus are, in effect, the same God, as the Trinity doctrine proclaims? In its issue of April-June 1999, The Living Pulpit magazine defined the Trinity this way: “There is one God and Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, and one Holy Spirit, three ‘persons’ . . . who are the same or one in essence . . . ; three persons equally God, possessing the same natural properties, yet really distinct, known by their personal characteristics.”
    Where did this complex Trinity teaching originate? The Christian Century, in its May 20-27, 1998, issue, quotes a pastor who acknowledges that the Trinity is “a teaching of the church rather than a teaching of Jesus.” Even though the Trinity is not a teaching of Jesus, is it consistent with what he taught?
    The Father—Superior to the Son
    Jesus taught his disciples to pray: “Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.” Our heavenly Father, whose name is Jehovah, is described in the Bible as being superior to his Son. For example, Jehovah is “from everlasting to everlasting.” But the Bible says that Jesus is “the firstborn of every creature.” That Jehovah is greater than Jesus, Jesus himself taught when he said: “My Father is greater than I.” (Matthew 6:9; Psalm 90:1, 2; Colossians 1:15; John 14:28, King James Version) Yet, the Trinity doctrine holds that the Father and the Son are “equally God.”
    The Father’s superiority over the Son, as well as the fact that the Father is a separate person, is highlighted also in the prayers of Jesus, such as the one before his execution: “Father, if you wish, remove this cup [that is, an ignominious death] from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.” (Luke 22:42) If God and Jesus are “one in essence,” as the Trinity doctrine says, how could Jesus’ will, or wish, seem different from that of his Father?—Hebrews 5:7, 8; 9:24.
    Furthermore, if Jehovah and Jesus were the same, how could one of them be aware of things of which the other was not? Jesus, for instance, said regarding the time of the world’s judgment: “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father.”—Mark 13:32.
    The Trinity and the Church
    The Trinity is not a teaching of Jesus or of the early Christians. As noted previously, it is “a teaching of the church.” In its 1999 issue on the Trinity, The Living Pulpit observed: “Sometimes, it seems that everyone assumes that the doctrine of the trinity is standard Christian theological fare,” but it added that it is not “a biblical idea.”
    The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) discusses the Trinity at length and admits: “The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”
    Martin Werner, as professor at the University of Bern, Switzerland, observed: “Wherever in the New Testament the relationship of Jesus to God, the Father, is brought into consideration, whether with reference to his appearance as a man or to his Messianic status, it is conceived of and represented categorically as subordination.” Clearly, what Jesus and the early Christians believed is far different from the Trinity teaching of churches today. From where, then, did this teaching come?
    The Trinity’s Early Origins
    The Bible tells of many gods and goddesses that people worshiped, including Ashtoreth, Milcom, Chemosh, and Molech. (1 Kings 11:1, 2, 5, 7) Even many people in the ancient nation of Israel once believed that Baal was the true God. So Jehovah’s prophet Elijah presented the challenge: “If Jehovah is the true God, go following him; but if Baal is, go following him.”—1 Kings 18:21.
    The worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads, was also common before Jesus was born. “From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity,” observed historian Will Durant. In the Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics, James Hastings wrote: “In Indian religion, e.g., we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahmā, Siva, and Viṣṇu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus.”
  3. R
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    03 May '10 08:331 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Who Is “the Only True God”?
    JESUS often prayed to God, whom he called Father, and he also taught others to do so. (Matthew 6:9-11; Luke 11:1, 2) In prayer with his apostles—only hours before his death—Jesus petitioned: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you. This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of y ...[text shortened]... #7779;ṇu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus.”
    All these points have been addressed. Why are you so determined to revisit the same topics over and over again. Do you think this forum is a place for you to proselytize?

    Just to come to this point again, however:

    The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) discusses the Trinity at length and admits: “The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”

    This is absolutely false. If you read the Catholic Encyclopedia yourself, you will find that it actually claims that the formula 'one God in three persons' was coined in the 2nd century by the theologian Tertullian.
  4. Standard membergalveston75
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    03 May '10 16:12
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    All these points have been addressed. Why are you so determined to revisit the same topics over and over again. Do you think this forum is a place for you to proselytize?

    Just to come to this point again, however:

    [b]The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) discusses the Trinity at length and admits: “The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4 ...[text shortened]... 'one God in three persons' was coined in the 2nd century by the theologian Tertullian.
    What, no name calling this time? I'm impressed. Anyway I didn't really post this for you so don't get so upset. The truth in the Bible will be seen by ones looking for it. If your not then you won't see it. If you are then you will...
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    03 May '10 16:45
    Originally posted by galveston75
    The truth in the Bible will be seen by ones looking for it. If your not then you won't see it. If you are then you will...
    What a cliched load of horse manure. You disgust me.
  6. Standard membergalveston75
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    03 May '10 17:14
    Originally posted by darvlay
    What a cliched load of horse manure. You disgust me.
    Whatever......
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    03 May '10 18:11
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Whatever......
    Can I borrow your decoder ring when you're not using yours?
  8. Standard membergalveston75
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    03 May '10 18:16
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Can I borrow your decoder ring when you're not using yours?
    Anyone can have it but wanting to know how to use it are two different things my friend...
  9. Standard memberfinnegan
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    03 May '10 18:55
    Originally posted by galveston75
    What, no name calling this time? I'm impressed. Anyway I didn't really post this for you so don't get so upset. The truth in the Bible will be seen by ones looking for it. If your not then you won't see it. If you are then you will...
    How revealing and apposite. It would spoil things to say more. This should made into a brass plate, mounted on a boulder and placed in the market square. Stare long enough into the bible and you will see what you want, what you wish for, what you fantasize about. Shame that so many of those fantasies concern the eternal burning in hell of anyone who sees something different.
  10. Standard membergalveston75
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    03 May '10 19:08
    Originally posted by finnegan
    How revealing and apposite. It would spoil things to say more. This should made into a brass plate, mounted on a boulder and placed in the market square. Stare long enough into the bible and you will see what you want, what you wish for, what you fantasize about. Shame that so many of those fantasies concern the eternal burning in hell of anyone who sees something different.
    There is no burning hell in case your interested. Also there is no personal truth or revelations that one finds in the Bible. There is only one truth and that's God's. So there is no staring into anything to see what opinion you come up with.
  11. Standard memberfinnegan
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    03 May '10 19:54
    Originally posted by galveston75
    There is no burning hell in case your interested. Also there is no personal truth or revelations that one finds in the Bible. There is only one truth and that's God's. So there is no staring into anything to see what opinion you come up with.
    Good news - hell is abolished. That's a recent innovation of course.

    Bad new - the only truth is in the bible. And if it's not there it's nowhere.
  12. Standard memberfinnegan
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    03 May '10 21:37
    Originally posted by galveston75

    The apostle John too described Jesus as subordinate to God. John said that he had written his Gospel so that readers might come to believe that “Jesus is the Christ the Son of God”—not that he was God. (John 20:31) John also received a heavenly vision in which he saw “the Lamb,” who in his Gospel is identified as Jesus. (John 1:29)
    I had understood that the John who wrote the Gospel was not an apostle at all - this was a mistaken belief based on having the name of an apostle but the dates just do not permit this to be the same man. John the apostle cannot have been alive when John's Gospel was written.
  13. Standard membermenace71
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    04 May '10 03:53
    I can turn this around on you G75 think about what Christ is asking for? He is in essence saying I had glory with you before the world was. Give me the Glory that I had with you. If Christ is just a good being how can he equate himself with the one and only true God as you like to say? The one and only true God does not share glory so what is this that Christ is asking for?

    “So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.” (John 17:5)


    -Manny-
  14. Lawrence, Ks
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    09 May '10 20:30
    Originally posted by galveston75
    No need to ask. The scripture should be very clear to even a young child. "One" means "one" does it not?

    If......God, Jehovah was part of a triune God he would have not made this statement and it wiould have been out of place.
    His people never believed in a triune God and there is no record of it in the Old Testiment at all.
    Let's get one thing as clear as possible, shall we? Most of what we find in the old testament was written in a style that at the time was HIGHLY symbolic. Hence, the oddly conflicting Genesis stories. These books were NOT meant to be read verbatim and taken as literally exact as you are trying to look at it. Plus, unless you happen to be reading the ORIGINAL texts (in that language) you are reading a "translation".

    A translation is inherently flawed, by the fact that it is translated by a person. A person, when translating a text, is going to base the new text on their own interpretation of the original BASED SUBJECTIVELY ON THE VIEW OF THEIR OWN ERA AND SOCIO-ECONOMIC ORIGIN!

    Case in point. The New Testament has most often been translated from GREEK, not Hebrew. Plus, that translation was often taken from the original ARAMAIC, also not Hebrew. In the Greek, "rock" has two different meanings based on the context in which you find it. Petras and Petros. Feminine and Masculine, "little rock" and "big rock". This may seem inconsequential, but not if you look at the statement from Jesus to Simon/Peter.

    This one example alone has sparked furious debates between faiths, concerning the Primacy, and validity, of the Pope.

    Your view of everything important being in the Bible is flawed. Who wrote YOUR Bible? What was it translated from? What was the political/theological bent of the translator? Is it complete or, like most Protestant faiths, has a large number of books been removed. Such as: the King James Bible is missing eleven... ELEVEN books of the Old Testament!!! Why? Because those books were a hindrance to the ruling populace of the day.

    Therefore ALL VERSIONS DERIVED FROM THAT SOURCE ARE INCOMPLETE AND INACCURATE BY THAT ACT!

    So...

    Whose "Truth" are YOU reading?
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    10 May '10 12:35
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Why was the comment made at Duet 6:4 that God was one God? What was the pourpose of this for that time?
    When you open up a new thread posing a new question, why don't you just state what particular Jehovah's Witness teaching you intend to argue ?
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