1. SubscriberSuzianne
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    24 Nov '15 02:03
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    That statement of yours reeks of Eastern mysticism, God is not everywhere, infact the Bible states that God is a spirit and therefore resides in a spiritual realm what is often referred to as heaven.
    On second thought, God is not in you, so I guess that is proof enough that God is not everywhere.
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    24 Nov '15 11:30
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Edit: I was writing this when you posted your reply to twhitehead above, I'm not certain we're saying quite the same thing here.

    That sounds like playing with words to me. If I say: "There is a place for it in the fridge.", for me the connotation is that there is a vacant spot for that thing which always contains things of that type (the eggs belong ...[text shortened]... cates to it. So is a predicateless object possible, in other words is ∃x∀P (¬Px) true or false?
    Isn't our concept of God and spirit something like this? So is God just a concept or something else? If a concept, how can a concept create anything out of nothing? How can anything create something out of nothing?

    I beleive there are some things humans can not fully understand because we are creatures without the ability to fully understand our Creator.
  3. Subscribermoonbus
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    24 Nov '15 17:05
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Isn't our concept of God and spirit something like this? So is God just a concept or something else? If a concept, how can a concept create anything out of nothing? How can anything create something out of nothing?

    I beleive there are some things humans can not fully understand because we are creatures without the ability to fully understand our Creator.
    We don't even understand ourselves half the time.
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    25 Nov '15 02:49
    Originally posted by moonbus
    We don't even understand ourselves half the time.
    That's for sure. 馃榾
  5. Subscribermoonbus
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    25 Nov '15 09:28
    Your new emoji is a great improvement over your previous one. (Thumbs up from me.)
  6. Joined
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    27 Nov '15 05:141 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Spirit is spoken of in scripture as "He", indicating a person, not just a force. In fact, the Holy Spirit has the qualities of a person indicating that He has a knowing mind with emotions and a will. The Holy Spirit is also said to be God in scripture and a Helper or Comforter sent by the Father at the request of Jesus, the Son of God.

    The Chr ...[text shortened]... he Son or the Word, and the Holy Spirit.

    HalleluYaH !!!
    Praise the LORD!
    Holy! Holy! Holy!
    The trinity doctrine was not formulated until The Council of Constantinople 0f 381 A.D.
    The Jews were unitarians. Why didn't Jesus correct that belief if it was wrong?
    (Matthew 16:16, 17) Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17鈥疘n response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Jo使nah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did.

    Do you know more than the Peter does?

    btw, thank you for saying Hallelu jah.
    Each time you do you are encouraging people to Praise Jah (Jehovah)!
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    27 Nov '15 05:19
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    God.
    Sorry Suz. God is not in the Universe, He created it and is greater than it,
    But, nice try!
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    27 Nov '15 06:411 edit
    Originally posted by roigam
    The trinity doctrine was not formulated until The Council of Constantinople 0f 381 A.D.
    The Jews were unitarians. Why didn't Jesus correct that belief if it was wrong?
    (Matthew 16:16, 17) Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17鈥疘n response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Jo使nah, because flesh and blood did n ...[text shortened]... u for saying Hallelu jah.
    Each time you do you are encouraging people to Praise Jah (Jehovah)!
    You really think Jesus did not try to correct the Pharisees?

    They would not listen to Him, so he called them all kinds of vile names. Then they conspired against Him and had Him crucified.

    How many times must He mention the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit before they should get it? They accused Him of breaking the Sabbath law of God for healing someone on the Sabbath. He then told them that He was the Lord of the Sabbath. They accused Him of blasphemy for claiming to be equal with God. Those are just a few examples of His attempt to correct them. However, they were just like you and the JWs, too proud and stubborn to listen to the truth.
  9. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    27 Nov '15 10:48
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    They accused Him of breaking the Sabbath law of God for healing someone
    on the Sabbath. He then told them that He was the Lord of the Sabbath. They
    accused Him of blasphemy for claiming to be equal with God. Those are just a
    few examples of His attempt to correct them.

    However, they were just like you and the JWs,
    too proud and stubborn to listen to the truth.
    What if Jesus was "too proud and stubborn" to "listen to the truth"?
  10. Joined
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    27 Nov '15 20:55
    I wrote this a few years ago in response to a lady who tried to get me interested in her particular religion; Baha'i. I will throw it into the discussion and see what happens!

    Random thoughts on Religion and the nature of belief

    What do I believe? What does it mean when we use the word “believe”? (OED; feel sure of the truth, have faith) (Faith; complete trust, strong belief). So to believe is not the same as to “know” (be absolutely sure of something). We choose to “believe” in ideas that appeal to us, to ideas or things that our previous experience has made us receptive or comfortable with. We concur with ideas that are in harmony with pre-existing ideas. We could say that “belief” is closer in meaning to “choice” than knowledge.

    The pressure to make a choice
    From an early age we are taught that it is encumbrant on us to accept the “truth” of whatever religion our family, school or society adopts. As we become more aware of the richness of choice, the wide variety of beliefs, we may decide to give more credence to a different set of beliefs. We may eventually come to the conclusion that they all appeal in different ways, and all are sublimely seductive in language and “spirit”. If we are to take advantage of our natural rights, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then we may eventually realise that we don’t have to make a choice at all. The notions of “good” “bad” implicit with the dogmas confuse and contaminate reasoning until we realise that they too can be abandoned in favour of caring and responsible behaviour.

    Natural Moral values
    Good manners are born out of convenience. We choose to protect each other from harm. The alternative would be catastrophic. We choose to eat with our mouths closed (most of us) and our elbows tucked in for the sake of our fellow diners. We choose to honour our parents as we would wish to be honoured. All of this is a convenient way of behaving for the safe, comfortable and harmonious propagation of our species.

    Artificial or invented values
    A man sits under a tree or meditates in a cave for a long time. He then announces to his friends that he has found an ideal way of behaving or thinking which will lead to fulfilment. He teaches his friends. They teach theirs and so on. Despite the sense or otherwise of his teachings, over a long period of time, interpretation and distortion play their part in producing a set of rigid and elaborate regulations and rituals. The original idea has become a huge structure of thought. A hierarchy has evolved, together with temples, uniforms, rituals and grand titles. The organisation splits into various factions, which eventually vie with each other in the belief that they each have the real truth. This leads to a desire for power and control.

    Selling the idea
    The above represents to me, the general trends of religious ideologies and philosophical thought. I find in all religions attractive ideas pertaining to the nature of God, why we are here and where we are going. It’s easy to be carried along with a series of theories which seem to be logically progressive but are reliant on an initial platform of supposed truth. For example, biblical writings are inspired by God or that the Pope is infallible because he has a direct line to Jesus. In the end we should acknowledge that we don’t really know anything which is outside of our tactile experience.

    An alternative?
    Educating people to think of themselves as simply members of the human race, not divided into groups of Christians, Muslims, Jews or any other sect. The more strongly one associates oneself with a specific group, the more real the imaginary wall surrounding that group appears, and the more one group feels alienated or threatened by those outside of the wall. By concentrating on natural moral behaviour, the caring, generous and respectful attitude towards each other, we could then gradually abandon the rituals and dogmas that lead us to believe we are segregated from each other.

    My own “beliefs”
    As it happens, I do think there could be some supreme being or entity at the heart of the universe. I can’t explain or justify why, and to my knowledge no one can prove or disprove this. It may well be that this “God” is what we and the universe is made up of, rather than an outside entity. It is because we are incapable of proof that I don’t take man-made and organised religions seriously. Without proof they are all conjecture and supposition, some more attractive and believable than others.







    Footnote
    The fact that astronomies change while the stars abide is a true analogy of every realm of human life and thought, religion not least of all. No existent theology can be a final formulation of a spiritual truth.
    HARRY EMERSON FOSDICK

    I have only a small flickering light to guide me in the darkness of a thick forest. Up comes a theologian and blows it out.
    DENIS DIDEROT

    Believe nothing, O monks, merely because you have been told it ...or because it is traditional, or because you yourselves have imagined it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings鈥晅hat doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.
    THE BUDDHA
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    28 Nov '15 00:35
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You really think Jesus did not try to correct the Pharisees?

    They would not listen to Him, so he called them all kinds of vile names. Then they conspired against Him and had Him crucified.

    How many times must He mention the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit before they should get it? They accused Him of breaking the Sabbath law of God for healing ...[text shortened]... em. However, they were just like you and the JWs, too proud and stubborn to listen to the truth.
    (Mark 15:34) And at the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice: “E使li, E使li, la使ma sa·bach·tha使ni?” which means, when translated: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
    Have you not read this?
    If Jesus was God how could he forsake himself?
    Obviously, Jesus and his God are 2 separate entities.
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Nov '15 04:51
    Originally posted by roigam
    (Mark 15:34) And at the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice: “E使li, E使li, la使ma sa·bach·tha使ni?” which means, when translated: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
    Have you not read this?
    If Jesus was God how could he forsake himself?
    Obviously, Jesus and his God are 2 separate entities.
    I answered this recently on page 11 of the thread titled:
    My God, My God why have you forsaken me.

    Jesus quoted from Psalm 22, which begins with, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" Jesus quoted this Psalm in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross. Consider verses 11-18 in Psalm 22:
    "Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help. 12 Many bulls have surrounded me; Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me. 13 They open wide their mouth at me, As a ravening and a roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax; It is melted within me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue cleaves to my jaws; And Thou dost lay me in the dust of death. 16 For dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me. They pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; 18 They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots."


    The term, "dogs," was used by the Jews to refer to Gentiles (cf. Matt. 15:21-28). His heart has melted within Him (v. 14). During the crucifixion process, the blood loss causes the heart to beat harder and harder and become extremely fatigued. Dehydration occurs (v. 15). Verses 16b-18 speak of piercing His hands and feet and dividing His clothing by casting lots. This is exactly what happen as described in Matt. 27:35.

    Psalm 22 was written about 1,000 years before Christ was born. At that time, crucifixion had not yet been invented. Actually, the Phoenicians developed it, and Rome borrowed the agonizing means of execution from them. So, when Rome ruled over Israel, it became the Roman means of capital punishment imposed upon the Jews whose Biblical means of execution was stoning. Nevertheless, Jesus is pointing to the Scriptures to substantiate His messianic mission.

    https://carm.org/questions/about-jesus/why-did-jesus-cry-out-my-god-my-god-why-have-you-forsaken-me

    The above is the normal accepted orthodox Christian view of why Jesus repeated those words from Holy Scripture.
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