Wasn't there an Original Sin thread recently? I can't find it.
Doesn't matter, I have a message and am curious if anyone (Christian or Non) agrees.
The bible teaches us that Adam and Eve committed a cosmic sin, and in doing so, ushered in a great curse from God. Because of this sin, Adam and Eve became cursed individuals.
It just follows that any of their offspring would also be cursed. Right? They were cursed from head to toe, inside and out. Every single molecule of Adam and Eve was cursed.
If the bible is to be believed, every one of us has at least some small part of Adam and Eve within us. As the Father and Mother of the entire human race, they have given us the gift of their DNA. So then, it just follows (though the Lord proclaimed it anyway for emphasis), that every single one of us is cursed, just as Adam and Eve were.
So why is that concept so hard to understand? Why is it so "unfair" that the children of Adam and Eve are being "punished" for their sins? They were cursed, folks. That means that every little tiny shred of their being was affected. They couldn't help but pass on this curse.
You don't have to look at it like God is staring at you and saying, "Well, you have lived a great life, but, since I can trace your lineage back to Adam and Eve, I'm going to have to punish you anyway." No, it's not like that. God isn't taking you--who otherwise are perfect--and punishing you specifically. What He did was curse Adam and Eve and the necessary result of that curse is that it is passed on to all of their children, genetically.
By cursing us, God didn't do some voodoo spell... no, He just lifted all the blessings He had placed upon Adam and Eve... the cosmic sin they committed was so agregious, they lost the right to be so incredibly blessed by God. the blessings endowed Adam and Eve with supernatural, superhuman powers. They were immortal and perfect physical specimens. When they rejected those blessings, He lifted them and left Adam and Eve on their own. What was left were 2 cursed human beings who, unfortunately for the rest of us, passed on this curse genetically.
Put very simply, the concept of original sin logically follows what should have occurred through DNA and genetics.
You don't have to believe in the whole story to at least understand this. You and I are the sons and daughters of the original human beings who populated this planet and therefore--for better or for worse--share their traits genetically. The doctrine of original sin merely supports this same logical conclusion.
Originally posted by sumydidThe subject may have come up on the thread entitled:
Wasn't there an Original Sin thread recently? I can't find it.
Doesn't matter, I have a message and am curious if anyone (Christian or Non) agrees.
The bible teaches us that Adam and Eve committed a cosmic sin, and in doing so, ushered in a great curse from God. Because of this sin, Adam and Eve became cursed individuals.
It just follows that any ...[text shortened]... lly. The doctrine of original sin merely supports this same logical conclusion.
Who is to blame for our 'sin nature'
Originally posted by sumydidWhy is it so hard for you to explain it logically? Instead you are forced to keep repeating it as fact with no real explanation. The truth is that you too don't understand it either, so you are forced to just keep repeating it.
So why is that concept so hard to understand? Why is it so "unfair" that the children of Adam and Eve are being "punished" for their sins? They were cursed, folks. That means that every little tiny shred of their being was affected. They couldn't help but pass on this curse.
What is a 'curse' and in what way does it make sense to you or seem fair?
Don't just repeat it, give me a reasonable explanation.
Originally posted by sumydidCould you point me to the spot in the human genome where the curse is encoded? 😵
Wasn't there an Original Sin thread recently? I can't find it.
Doesn't matter, I have a message and am curious if anyone (Christian or Non) agrees.
The bible teaches us that Adam and Eve committed a cosmic sin, and in doing so, ushered in a great curse from God. Because of this sin, Adam and Eve became cursed individuals.
It just follows that any ...[text shortened]... lly. The doctrine of original sin merely supports this same logical conclusion.
Originally posted by SwissGambitI don't think that really matters. What matters to me is that it is inherently wrong for blame to be inherited. This sort of thinking is what is wrong with racism, classism and all other beliefs that children are to blame for who their parents are - or even to benefit from it. Of course Judaism is built on the claim that Gods 'chosen people' are uniquely blessed and that this blessing is inherited.
Could you point me to the spot in the human genome where the curse is encoded? 😵
The Root Cause of Aging and Death
Most scientists agree that aging and death seem somehow programmed into our genes. The question is: When, how, and why did they enter our genetic code, as it were?
The Bible gives us the simple answer—even though it does not present it in terms of genetics or DNA. Romans 5:12 reads: “That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.”
The first man, Adam, had the prospect of living forever. His body was designed with the necessary faculties to live and enjoy eternal life. Eternal life was conditional, though. Adam had to collaborate with and be obedient to the Source of life, his Creator, in order to maintain his life perpetually.—Genesis 1:31; 2:15-17.
Adam chose to disobey the Creator. In effect, Adam claimed that man is better off ruling himself independent of God. Thus he sinned. From that point onward, it was as if his genetic code was altered. Instead of passing on everlasting life as an inheritance to his offspring, Adam transmitted sin and death.—Genesis 3:6, 19; Romans 6:23.
- Joined
- 08 Dec 04
- Moves
- 100919
Originally posted by galveston75Well stated, but Adam's disobedience was even worse than that. Not only all you said is true, but he also transferred his dominion of the earth to Satan. That is why during the temptation of Jesus, satan said, " all this I will give you that was delivered unto me"...
The Root Cause of Aging and Death
Most scientists agree that aging and death seem somehow programmed into our genes. The question is: When, how, and why did they enter our genetic code, as it were?
The Bible gives us the simple answer—even though it does not present it in terms of genetics or DNA. Romans 5:12 reads: “That is why, just as through on ...[text shortened]... s an inheritance to his offspring, Adam transmitted sin and death.—Genesis 3:6, 19; Romans 6:23.
In the epistles he is also called "the god of this world" ... He has control over the environment, including weather ....funny how people unknownst to them blame God for tornadoes and hurricanes....
Originally posted by checkbaiterThanks and yes many, many humans do under estimate him or just don't believe his exist. A really bad mistake and just what satan would love for all to believe.
Well stated, but Adam's disobedience was even worse than that. Not only all you said is true, but he also transferred his dominion of the earth to Satan. That is why during the temptation of Jesus, satan said, " all this I will give you that was delivered unto me"...
In the epistles he is also called "the god of this world" ... He has control over the e ...[text shortened]... g weather ....funny how people unknownst to them blame God for tornadoes and hurricanes....
Originally posted by sumydidNon Theist so what did Jesus have to get crucified for?
Wasn't there an Original Sin thread recently? I can't find it.
Doesn't matter, I have a message and am curious if anyone (Christian or Non) agrees.
The bible teaches us that Adam and Eve committed a cosmic sin, and in doing so, ushered in a great curse from God. Because of this sin, Adam and Eve became cursed individuals.
It just follows that any lly. The doctrine of original sin merely supports this same logical conclusion.
Theist Because the first descendents of mankind, Adam & Eve, who lived in a magic garden (equipped with talking snakes), were cursed after committing one of the most heinous sins imaginable - a crime so abominable to "G"od that every human that has and ever will live shall also inherit this curse. Indirectly, all the animals of the world shall also inherited this curse too. One little act irreconcilably tainted everything - caused AIDS, and hurricanes, and terrorism. Indeed everything nasty you can possibly imagine stems from the single attrocity your ancestors committed 6000 years ago.
But to save us all from this curse, "G"od arbitrarily decided that the price to pay is blood; and then he sent his own son, an equipotent manifestation of himself as well as the "H"oly spirit to be crucified to satisfy that payment.
Non Theist Wow...sounds like they committed a pretty bad crime then! What was it by the way?
Theist I don't think you're ready for this knowledge yet - it will give you such terrible nightmares and tormented thoughts that all other attrocities in the world shall pale in comparison.
Non Theist No... I seriously have to know... I'm as ready as I'll ever be
Theist Are you sure? No turning back from this one!
Non Theist (*braces himself*) Yes I'm ready
*chilling background music*
Theist They ate a naughty apple from a magic tree!!! 😲
Non Theist WTF!?? ... that's it!???
They ate some fruit they shouldn't have, and the consequence of this was perpetual death, disease, depravity, and despair!? ... Are you f***ing serious!??? 😠
- Joined
- 08 Dec 04
- Moves
- 100919
Originally posted by AgergI have to agree that it sounds comical to the average person. It sounds like a sci-fi movie.
[b]Non Theist so what did Jesus have to get crucified for?
Theist Because the first descendents of mankind, Adam & Eve, who lived in a magic garden (equipped with talking snakes), were cursed after committing one of the most heinous sins imaginable - a crime so abominable to "G"od that every human that has and ever will live shall also inherit th ...[text shortened]... rpetual death, disease, depravity, and despair!? ... Are you f***ing serious!??? 😠[/b]
Maybe that is why the bible calls us a "peculiar" people, because we believe it.
I suspect you will be pooping your pants when Jesus does return though.
Good luck with that.....🙂
Originally posted by galveston75The fruit from the tree of life was removed by God. That is why humans DNA was affected over time. In our younger years the reproduction of replacement cells in our body seems to work very well, but over time, without getting the proper nutrients from the fruit of the tree of life, errors in this process keeps increasing until we die. 😏
The Root Cause of Aging and Death
Most scientists agree that aging and death seem somehow programmed into our genes. The question is: When, how, and why did they enter our genetic code, as it were?
The Bible gives us the simple answer—even though it does not present it in terms of genetics or DNA. Romans 5:12 reads: “That is why, just as through on ...[text shortened]... s an inheritance to his offspring, Adam transmitted sin and death.—Genesis 3:6, 19; Romans 6:23.
Originally posted by RJHindsSo if that tree were still on earth, we would all have to eat from it on some kind of regular basis to live?
The fruit from the tree of life was removed by God. That is why humans DNA was affected over time. In our younger years the reproduction of replacement cells in our body seems to work very well, but over time, without getting the proper nutrients from the fruit of the tree of life, errors in this process keeps increasing until we die. 😏
Originally posted by galveston75Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.
So if that tree were still on earth, we would all have to eat from it on some kind of regular basis to live?
(Genesis 3:22-24 NKJV)
Here the person of the Son speaks to the other two Persons in the Godhead and tells them that they must guard against the man eating from the fruit of the tree of life and live forever. It was at first guarded by cherubim before it was moved to the Paradise Garden in Heaven.
So man needs food and the nutrients from various fruit in the garden for a variety of reasons. The nutrients provided by the fruit of the tree of life was to maintain the man's life forever. So we must get these nutrients in some manner to maintain everlasting life. In the future, God may provide these nutrients in some other manner than by way of fruit from a tree.
Originally posted by twhiteheadWell, I think it does matter. If Christians are going to sell a genetic version of Original Sin, they ought to have at least some inkling of how it is transmitted to the offspring. I'm not letting them get away with the science angle.
I don't think that really matters. What matters to me is that it is inherently wrong for blame to be inherited. This sort of thinking is what is wrong with racism, classism and all other beliefs that children are to blame for who their parents are - or even to benefit from it. Of course Judaism is built on the claim that Gods 'chosen people' are uniquely blessed and that this blessing is inherited.
Originally posted by checkbaiterI'd much rather put up with the vanishingly small chance I'll be crapping my pants when Jesus supposedly returns, than the ongoing crapping of pants on the part of fundamentalists who think they or their friends are destined for some big old lake of fire way down below if they don't watch their 'p's and 'q's with "G"od.
I have to agree that it sounds comical to the average person. It sounds like a sci-fi movie.
Maybe that is why the bible calls us a "peculiar" people, because we believe it.
I suspect you will be pooping your pants when Jesus does return though.
Good luck with that.....🙂
Seriously, I'm not going to elevate this nonsense to the level of sci-fi (even rubbish sci-fi). Indeed I see more sophistication in children's TV shows like BBC's "In The Night Garden"