Originally posted by Nemesio
Let's try again:
When a Jew stoned a woman caught in adultery back in 50 BCE, do you consider that to be
a moral good?
When a Jew stones a woman caught in adultery today, do you consider that to be a moral
good?
When a Gentile Christian stones a woman caught in adultery today, do you consider that that to
be a moral good?
My answ ast, frankly, so I'd rather you the other, simpler questions first.)
Nemesio
Let's try again:
When a Jew stoned a woman caught in adultery back in 50 BCE, do you consider that to be
a moral good?
When a Jew stones a woman caught in adultery today, do you consider that to be a moral
good?
When a Gentile Christian stones a woman caught in adultery today, do you consider that that to
be a moral good?
My answer is 'No, No, and No.' It has always been morally unjustified to stone a woman (or
man) who has committed adultery, no matter who claims to have said otherwise.
What are your answers and why?
The whole discussion, originally, wasn't about whether stoning someone to death is morally right or wrong. The question was whether or not I believed what the Bible teaches concerning women. I said yes.
Now, just so you won't think I'm evading the question as to the morality of stoning folks to death for adultery, my answer is this.
If God tells one to kill someone for breaking the law because God decided that that was the appropriate punishment, then I say that that one had better obey God rather than man.
Do you believe it was God that said one should be stoned for adultery, or do you believe it was man?
Of course you have to pick and chose what portions of the Bible are valid in order to say that stoning someone to death was added by man, which, when you do, makes you the authority, and not God.
My knowledge of Scripture is not particularly lacking, but I'm sure you think of it as corrupted
because it doesn't adopt your 'God done said it' attitude. I don't work from that standpoint
and since you take on blind faith that this is the case, opinions that deviate from that hermeneutic
will necessarily appear corrupt. That having been said, you're one of the first people on these
forums to question my actual knowledge rather than my interpretation. That's pretty ballsy.
Too ballsy! Your knowledge of the Bible may very well be greater than mine. The difference is that I believe it. Though I probably shouldn't have said that, I was thinking more in terms of context rather than content.
You say you don't work from the standpoint of the "God done said it" attitude. I find that puzzling since knowing the "Truth" is based on what God has said. Otherwise, again, that makes man the authority concerning all things spiritual. That is a dangerous position to work from.
So? Yes or no question here: Are you saying the same action X committed each by a
Jew and Gentile can be judged differently?
By that logic, any argument stemming from Levitical Law about homosexuality is moot, since
it would only apply to Jews and not Gentiles. I wonder why Christians use it, then?
I'm saying this, and to qualify my reply goes beyond the scope of this question, Israel was formed by God. Was it not?
First, God called out Abram.
Then later, after four hundred years, God gave Moses the law, containing 613 ordinances, for the purpose of governing the nation of Israel.
Remember, when God called out Abram after the debacle of the tower of Babel, God concluded the Gentiles in unbelief, and began the building of His nation Israel. Exclusively.
Now, concerning any argument stemming from the law as a guild for Christian conduct today, I have this to say.
I appears that there has been some kind of paradigm shift, doesn't there? This is a grand subject. One that I would happily love to engage in, but it would take hours, and I simply don't have the time at this time.
Yes or no question: So, stoning a woman back then was not a sin, but today it is, right?
Sin is disobedience. Is it not?
We live in an entirely different world that 2000 years ago. At least we do. In some places people still stone folks to death. Barbaric isn't it?
You see, we live in a nation of laws that regulates how far we can go when we decide to take the law into our own hands.
We are not under the law, but under grace. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. I would be put to death for the things I've done if we were under the Levitical law. Maybe you too?
Do you think it's particularly Christian to be insulting?
No it is not! I apologise. I get carried away. Please forgive.
Jesus made a statement that discouraged the people around Him from following the mandate
of Levitical Law and stone an adulterous woman. This is not an extrapolation; this is a Scriptural
fact. Jesus said something which encouraged people to disobey God's command: they did not
stone the woman.
Yes or no question: Do you believe that those Jews, who at Jesus' comment did not
follow God's command, sinned?
I'm thinking that what Jesus had written in the dirt was enough to change their minds. Probably the details of the plot they had engineered to "catch" Jesus off guard by framing the woman. Maybe the name of the one caught with the woman. Perhaps a Pharisee that was tired of her anyway. We don't know. It failed again.
Besides, and what's more important, is that Jesus is able to forgive sins. Isn't that right?
One of those Biblical teachings is that adulterous (Jewish...) women ought to be stoned. Do
you subscribe to that? (Yes or no, and why suffices)
Another is that (Jewish...) women are unclean during their periods. Do you subscribe to that?
(Yes or no, and why suffices)
That you are getting hostile and insulting seems pretty sad to me. I can give answers to all
of these questions (frankly, I think the answers are pretty obvious) without getting upset. Why
does discussing your faith disturb you so much? (The answer to this question interests me the
least, frankly, so I'd rather you the other, simpler questions first.)
Come now. Be honest. You never say anything that can be understood to be a little hostile and insulting?
I, maybe more than anyone else, has been insulted in this forum in the most hostile ways imaginable.
But that's ok. I have thick skin. Besides that I don't keep score.
Truthfully, I try to show the same grace to others that God has shown me. Forgiveness is great medicine.