1. Cosmos
    Joined
    21 Jan '04
    Moves
    11184
    01 Sep '05 04:32
    So the latest Catholic muppet displays the usual religious stupidity.

    He calls on the congregation to have more children and says that an increasing population is a sign of a successful society.

    Given that the world is already overpopulated by Humans and that the population is increasing by an estimated 87 million a year, shouldn't he be discouraging us from breeding.

    Isn't this just a sign that the Catholic church is worried by the more rapidly expanding Islamic population?

    Once again, the sheer narrow mindedness of religion and its belief and desire for its followers to constitute the entire population of "Chosen" people in the world, places us all at risk of extinction.
  2. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    01 Sep '05 04:47
    Originally posted by howardgee
    So the latest Catholic muppet displays the usual religious stupidity.

    He calls on the congregation to have more children and says that an increasing population is a sign of a successful society.

    Given that the world is already overpopulated by Humans and that the population is increasing by an estimated 87 million a year, shouldn't he be discouragin ...[text shortened]... te the entire population of "Chosen" people in the world, places us all at risk of extinction.
    I have always suspected that the ban on contraception was, at least in part, due to their
    concerns that (e.g.) Irish families would be smaller, thus reducing the rate of RC growth
    in general, and the number of priests in particular.

    Nemesio
  3. Felicific Forest
    Joined
    15 Dec '02
    Moves
    24375
    01 Sep '05 05:15
    Originally posted by howardgee
    So the latest Catholic muppet displays the usual religious stupidity.

    He calls on the congregation to have more children and says that an increasing population is a sign of a successful society.

    Given that the world is already overpopulated by Humans and that the population is increasing by an estimated 87 million a year, shouldn't he be discouragin ...[text shortened]... te the entire population of "Chosen" people in the world, places us all at risk of extinction.
    Howardgee: "He calls on the congregation to have more children and says that an increasing population is a sign of a successful society."


    Can you provide a link so we can read his statements in their proper context ?
  4. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    01 Sep '05 05:58
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Howardgee: "He calls on the congregation to have more children and says that an increasing population is a sign of a successful society."


    Can you provide a link so we can read his statements in their proper context ?
    It took me 5 minutes to find it, Ivanhoe. Don't be lazy.

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20050831_en.html

    http://www.cathnews.com/news/509/3.php

    http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1762858,00.html

    Nemesio
  5. Felicific Forest
    Joined
    15 Dec '02
    Moves
    24375
    01 Sep '05 06:283 edits
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    It took me 5 minutes to find it, Ivanhoe. Don't be lazy.

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20050831_en.html

    http://www.cathnews.com/news/509/3.php

    http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1762858,00.html

    Nemesio
    You busy bee you .... thanks.


    BENEDICT XVI

    GENERAL AUDIENCE

    Wednesday, 31 August 2005




    Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

    Today I would like to reflect with you on Psalm one hundred and twenty-six, which reminds us that whatever we do or undertake can only bear fruit if it has God’s blessing. Without the Lord, all our efforts will ultimately fail. With the Lord, we will find prosperity and happiness, our labours will bear fruit, and our lives will be secure.

    The psalmist also reminds us that the gift of children is a particular blessing from God, a source of joy and a support, especially in old age. Children are also a blessing for society, giving it a special freshness and future. We can easily think of those societies today that are lacking in energy and hope because of a declining birth-rate. May the Lord’s blessing bring them new life, new hope! And may we all recognize that only with God’s help can our work succeed, for "if the Lord does not build the house, in vain do its builders labour".

    ***

    I offer my heartfelt greetings to all the English-speaking visitors present at today’s Audience, including pilgrims from Ireland, Malta, Australia and the United States of America. I extend a special welcome to the altar servers who have come Malta with their families, to assist in Saint Peter’s Basilica. May your pilgrimage strengthen your faith and renew your love for the Lord, and may God’s blessing be upon you all!

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20050831_en.html


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    A declining birth-rate sets big problems for a society if it keeps declining. Every economist knows this ..... I hope. There's nothing wrong with the Pope's statements regarding this demographic problem that certain countries are facing.
  6. Joined
    08 Mar '05
    Moves
    6544
    01 Sep '05 17:39
    A declining birth-rate sets big problems for a society if it keeps declining. Every economist knows this ..... I hope. There's nothing wrong with the Pope's statements regarding this demographic problem that certain countries are facing
    Completely agree
  7. Joined
    04 Nov '03
    Moves
    6803
    01 Sep '05 18:23
    Originally posted by howardgee
    So the latest Catholic muppet displays the usual religious stupidity.
    You can say that the RCC is stupid, fine. But such an attack reeks of E not equalling MC Squared.
  8. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    02 Sep '05 07:422 edits
    Originally posted by howardgee
    He calls on the congregation to have more children and says that an increasing population is a sign of a successful society.
    I have sent a little sprite to whisper in Papa Ben's ear, "Instruct your priests that they shall marry and raise vast quantities of children. This measure will improve the overall morale and quality of the priesthood".

    Is the Cat in the Hat looking at the bigger picture? Population explosion does seem to be a problem in the world overall; Europe is not exactly under-populated, and whatever shortfall declining birthrates amongst the traditional populations may cause can easily be offset through immigration (perhaps Britain leads the way in this respect). Why the nostalgia for vanishing white faces?

    Rather than exhorting Europeans to breed, he should praise them for their efforts in combating population growth and urge the rest of the faithful--say, in the Phillipines--to follow their example.
  9. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
    In a hot place
    Joined
    11 Sep '04
    Moves
    7707
    02 Sep '05 08:39
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    I have sent a little sprite to whisper in Papa Ben's ear, "Instruct your priests that they shall marry and raise vast quantities of children. This measure will improve the overall morale and quality of the priesthood".

    Is the Cat in the Hat looking at the bigger picture? Population explosion does seem to be a problem in the world overall; Europe ...[text shortened]... tion growth and urge the rest of the faithful--say, in the Phillipines--to follow their example.
    he could unleash the power of pregnant nuns , that could work.
  10. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    02 Sep '05 08:41
    Originally posted by frogstomp
    he could unleash the power of pregnant nuns , that could work.
    Entire convents could be reassigned to do the holy work of increasing the population of the faithful. The Devils of Loudun come home to roost.
  11. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
    In a hot place
    Joined
    11 Sep '04
    Moves
    7707
    02 Sep '05 09:08
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Entire convents could be reassigned to do the holy work of increasing the population of the faithful. The Devils of Loudun come home to roost.
    have to rename them to Sums.
  12. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    02 Sep '05 09:09
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    A declining birth-rate sets big problems for a society if it keeps declining. Every economist knows this ..... I hope. There's nothing wrong with the Pope's statements regarding this demographic problem that certain countries are facing.
    Are you suggesting that overpopulation isn't a problem, Ivanhoe?

    What economists are you consulting with?

    Nemesio
  13. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
    19 Jan '04
    Moves
    22131
    02 Sep '05 16:22
    As a one-time, somekinduva economist—

    At some point, declining birthrates could be problematic for an economy—given natural resources, technology, how closed the economy is, etc.—over the long run. For example, a shrinking labor force, a declining consumer sector (with declining demand for goods and services, with a declining demand for investment capital&hellip😉, and an aging demographic profile (with strains on social services, etc.). It really depends on how a whole host of factors balance out.

    Two extreme examples: (1) Evidence shows that hunter-gatherer societies tend to have relatively low birthrates on the whole, supporting small bands; this makes sense, given reliance on nature for food and materials, and the systemic travel from locale to locale, etc. (2) Agricultural economies tend to have much higher birthrates and larger families; midwest American farmers, for example, used to talk about having a bunch of kids to help out on the farm (this is probably alleviated, all things considered) with advanced farm technology). One explanation for these differences is caloric: the higher consumed calories in the agricultural society simply, biologically leads to higher birthrates and, ceteris paribus a burgeoning population; and vice versa. (Interestingly, agricultural societies can also be more subject to the devastation of famine, it seems.)

    Telerion could address all this more accurately and with better detail; or Palynka perhaps…

    Caveats, however—

    1) I think we’re talking about long run, sustained decline here; a sharp change in birthrates can cause waves in the economy (e.g., the US’s present controversies over Social Security are related to the aging of the Post WWII “baby boom” generation).

    2) Rising birthrates (within a given economy) can be problematic in the other direction.

    3) Global population growth is probably one of the severest problems facing humanity, with a global strain on resources.

    4) Does anyone really want to talk about social engineering of birthrates for the sake of balancing economic resources? Or as a strategy by one group or another to achieve some kind of economic (and political) hegemony? Can you say “brave (maybe) new world?”

    I think the far-and-away greatest demographic problem facing the world today is overall population growth, period. So I generally think that purposefully promoting higher birthrates among any population group is irresponsible. [Note how carefully I’m trying to tread here…] Are there countervailing moral issues? I don’t know—but pursuing policies that increase the strain on available natural resources to sustain life, with the attendant conflicts, suffering and death, does not seem to be a morally positive tack.

    Big caveat: Population and demographic issues are complex (and my specialties were labor market studies and retirement/pension issues: micro-economics).
  14. Felicific Forest
    Joined
    15 Dec '02
    Moves
    24375
    02 Sep '05 18:312 edits
    Originally posted by vistesd
    As a one-time, somekinduva economist—

    At some point, declining birthrates could be problematic for an economy—given natural resources, technology, how closed the economy is, etc.—over the long run. For example, a shrinking labor force, a declining consumer sector (with declining demand for goods and services, with a declining demand for in ...[text shortened]... (and my specialties were labor market studies and retirement/pension issues: micro-economics).
    Visted: "At some point, declining birthrates could be problematic for an economy—given natural resources, technology, how closed the economy is, etc.—over the long run "

    Pope Benedict XV: "We can easily think of those societies today that are lacking in energy and hope because of a declining birth-rate."
  15. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    02 Sep '05 18:36
    Originally posted by ivanhoe

    Pope Benedict XV: "We can easily think of those societies today that are lacking in energy and hope because of a declining birth-rate."
    Why does he attribute the lack of energy & hope to a declining birth rate rather than other factors? Which societies would these be anyhow?
Back to Top