1. Joined
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    05 Oct '05 17:04
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

    what a nonsense he seems to forget that you can live a good life without believing.

    And would it be best to spread your chances and worship every god?😕
  2. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    05 Oct '05 17:142 edits
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard

    And would it be best to spread your chances and worship every god?😕
    Therein lies the refutation to Pascal's wager.

    Pascal claims to establish that the EV of believing in God is positive.

    But then you can posit the existence of a second God, who condemns you if you believe in the original God, and who saves you if you believe in himself. Then the EV of believing in this new God is positive and the total EV across both Gods vanishes. No EV can be gained by believing or disbelieving in the original God.
  3. Shetland Primary
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    05 Oct '05 17:26
    Please excuse my ignorance, but is Christianity not one of the only Religions that has absolute claims?

    Don't some people of the same religion worship thousands of gods/idols?
  4. Standard membertelerion
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    05 Oct '05 18:11
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Please excuse my ignorance, but is Christianity not one of the only Religions that has absolute claims?

    Don't some people of the same religion worship thousands of gods/idols?
    Please excuse my ignorance, but I cannot discern what you are trying to say.
  5. Joined
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    05 Oct '05 18:49
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Therein lies the refutation to Pascal's wager.

    Pascal claims to establish that the EV of believing in God is positive.

    But then you can posit the existence of a second God, who condemns you if you believe in the original God, and who saves you if you believe in himself. Then the EV of believing in this new God is positive and the total EV across both Gods vanishes. No EV can be gained by believing or disbelieving in the original God.
    What do you mean by EV?😀
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    05 Oct '05 18:50
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    What do you mean by EV?😀
    Expected value, a component of the model used to analyze the wager.
  7. Joined
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    05 Oct '05 19:01
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Therein lies the refutation to Pascal's wager.

    Pascal claims to establish that the EV of believing in God is positive.

    But then you can posit the existence of a second God, who condemns you if you believe in the original God, and who saves you if you believe in himself. Then the EV of believing in this new God is positive and the total EV across both Gods vanishes. No EV can be gained by believing or disbelieving in the original God.
    Yes, and if there is just one god then there is a chance you picked the wrong one.
  8. Joined
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    05 Oct '05 19:31
    For Christ's sake, even IF the God in his wager was the "real" God, his wager would still be inherently wrong because you don't truly "believe" in the God, you simply say so in order to avoid hell. A "true" Christian would believe in God, not because the other option is hell, not because of a numbers game, but because he/she truly believed in God. Picking a belief in God because it is the "statistically correct" option would not guarantee you a ticket to heaven. In fact, it may justify a ticket directly in the opposite direction.
  9. Shetland Primary
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    05 Oct '05 19:44
    Originally posted by telerion
    Please excuse my ignorance, but I cannot discern what you are trying to say.
    Christianity has specific absolute claims. Jesus Christ said that he was the only way through which man can come to God.

    Are there any other religions that are that specific?

    In the Hindu religion they have many gods. Do you have to worship all of them to go to Heaven?
  10. Colorado
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    05 Oct '05 19:49
    Originally posted by lioyank
    For Christ's sake, even IF the God in his wager was the "real" God, his wager would still be inherently wrong because you don't truly "believe" in the God, you simply say so in order to avoid hell. A "true" Christian would believe in God, not because the other option is hell, not because of a numbers game, but because he/she truly believed in God. Pi ...[text shortened]... tee you a ticket to heaven. In fact, it may justify a ticket directly in the opposite direction.
    Well put.
  11. Colorado
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    05 Oct '05 19:51
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Christianity has specific absolute claims. Jesus Christ said that he was the only way through which man can come to God.

    Are there any other religions that are that specific?

    In the Hindu religion they have many gods. Do you have to worship all of them to go to Heaven?
    Hindus believe in different aspects of the same God.
  12. Shetland Primary
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    05 Oct '05 19:532 edits
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    Hindus believe in different aspects of the same God.
    Does the "Hindu god" (or any other god for that matter) make any claims that he will smite all non-Hindus?

    Does Allah (for example) say that all non-Muslims will be cast into a lake of fire?
  13. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    05 Oct '05 20:27
    Originally posted by lioyank
    Picking a belief in God because it is the "statistically correct" option would not guarantee you a ticket to heaven. In fact, it may justify a ticket directly in the opposite direction.
    Are all rational approaches that lead one to believe unacceptable, or just this one?
  14. Standard memberMoldy Crow
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    05 Oct '05 20:36
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Does the "Hindu god" (or any other god for that matter) make any claims that he will smite all non-Hindus?

    Does Allah (for example) say that all non-Muslims will be cast into a lake of fire?
    You're not helping your cause here .

    Btw - Other religions gods don't make such claims because they're based in love , not sado-masochism .
  15. Joined
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    05 Oct '05 20:59
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Are all rational approaches that lead one to believe unacceptable, or just this one?
    LMAO. I hope you're not implying Pascal's theory is rational...
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