1. Donationkirksey957
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    20 Nov '07 21:171 edit
    I'm preaching a thanksgiving sermon and using Luke 17:11-19 as my text. I'm kind of throwing this out as a passage to reflect on for Thanksgiving. What are your thoughts on this passage?

    I should add that I have already written my sermon so I'm not asking you to write it for me or do my homework.
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    21 Nov '07 02:443 edits
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    I'm preaching a thanksgiving sermon and using Luke 17:11-19 as my text. I'm kind of throwing this out as a passage to reflect on for Thanksgiving. What are your thoughts on this passage?

    I should add that I have already written my sermon so I'm not asking you to write it for me or do my homework.
    I will write down the scripture for those who are "Bible impaired."

    And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off. And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said to them, Go, show yourselves to the priests. And it came to pass, that as they went, they were cleansed. And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God. And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks, and he was a Samaritan. And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine? There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger? And he said to him, Arise, go your way, your faith has made you whole."

    Just a few observations. First off, I do not know what the numbers signify if anything. There were 10 men and only one came back to thank him. Secondly, it should be known that the Samaritan should have been the last person to come back to Jesus to thank him because the Samaritans and Jews were at odds culturally with each other. Therefore, he must have intentinoally used the Samaritan to drive home a point of some kind.
  3. Cape Town
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    21 Nov '07 07:11
    Originally posted by whodey
    I will write down the scripture for those who are "Bible impaired."
    Thank you.

    Therefore, he must have intentinoally used the Samaritan to drive home a point of some kind.
    What happened to his free will?
  4. Illinois
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    21 Nov '07 11:512 edits
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    I'm preaching a thanksgiving sermon and using Luke 17:11-19 as my text. I'm kind of throwing this out as a passage to reflect on for Thanksgiving. What are your thoughts on this passage?

    I should add that I have already written my sermon so I'm not asking you to write it for me or do my homework.
    The most notable aspect of this passage is hidden by the subtlety of the original Greek. The initial healing of the ten lepers was "merely" an outward cure. The Greek word used, iaomai, designates that what they received was a physical healing, nothing more. Whereas the one (former) leper who returned and glorified God, in addition to being healed, was saved also. Christ said to him, "thy faith hath made thee whole." The Greek word translated as "whole" in this instance means a great deal more than a physical cure! Sozo means, "safe," i.e. from the penalties of the Messianic judgment, etc. It was not the cleansed leper's glorifying of God or his giving of thanks to Christ but his faith which made him whole, i.e. which "saved" him.

    Too many Christians are concerned with getting stuff from God, and too few Christians are concerned with being "made whole." The modern church is for the most part guilty of fornication with the world, as if God were merely a cheerleader for our selfish worldly pursuits and primarily concerned with helping us in our own endeavors. But Christ's call is radically at odds with the world and our own selfish desires. It is only through surrender of such things that "wholeness" is found -- a surrender borne of faith, which gives rise to spontaneous praise of God and the prolific giving of thanks which are the hallmarks of a truly saved person.
  5. Donationkirksey957
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    21 Nov '07 12:05
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    The most notable aspect of this passage is hidden by the subtlety of the original Greek. The initial healing of the ten lepers was "merely" an outward cure. The Greek word used, iaomai, designates that what they received was a physical healing, nothing more. Whereas the one (former) leper who returned and glorified God, in addition to being hea ...[text shortened]... d the prolific giving of thanks which are the hallmarks of a truly saved person.
    Strong work! We're going in the same direction here. I was taking the stance that there is a difference in healing and salvation. The simple task of saying "thank you" was what brought him into the company of Jesus, if you will.

    The other interesting aspect of passage is that Jesus sent them the priest. He didn't do the healing or miracle himself. I believe this passage may be lost on some TV evangelists. Another interesting theme is the simplicity of their "obedience." Their cure was not in the right medicine, ritual, or praying hard enough. Just following the rules.
  6. England
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    21 Nov '07 12:24
    carnt you take it from your heart if it means that much to you. do you have to quote scripture. Is it for mans ears or gods. the latter will know before you speak, if its for the former then let them know its god we thank in words deeds and prays, no sacrifice of turkeys but circumsise your heart to the lord.
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    22 Nov '07 01:26
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    The most notable aspect of this passage is hidden by the subtlety of the original Greek. The initial healing of the ten lepers was "merely" an outward cure. The Greek word used, iaomai, designates that what they received was a physical healing, nothing more. Whereas the one (former) leper who returned and glorified God, in addition to being hea ...[text shortened]... d the prolific giving of thanks which are the hallmarks of a truly saved person.
    Req'd. 😉
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    22 Nov '07 01:33
    Originally posted by twhitehead


    Therefore, he must have intentinoally used the Samaritan to drive home a point of some kind.
    What happened to his free will?[/b]
    I don't understand your question.
  9. Standard memberRed Night
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    22 Nov '07 03:08
    Originally posted by whodey
    I will write down the scripture for those who are "Bible impaired."

    And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off. And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And w ...[text shortened]... Therefore, he must have intentinoally used the Samaritan to drive home a point of some kind.
    Samaria and Galilee are different places and each is separate from Judeah. The people of all three places essentially believed the same things.

    The samaritans were not carried to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar, for that they were shunned by the Jews of Judeah.


    Was Christ a Judean or a Galilean? Nazareth is in Galilee. Bethlehem is in Judeah. The traditional view is that Jesus and all of the disciples were Galileans except for Judas who was a Judean. Christ's cousin, John the Baptist, was a Judean. Mary's sister lived in Bethlehem (She is the putative mother of the Apostle James, known as "the less" for his small stature AND "the Just"😉 And if we believe the scriptures, Mary travelled to Bethlehem twice while pregnant with Jesus.

    Several of Christ's disciples had homes in and around Jerusalem.

    During the period when Quirinius was Governor of Arabia, a Galilean named Judas led a revolt that marched on Jerusalem. With Judas was a man called Zadoch (which means "the Just"😉. This Judas is considered the founder of the 4th branch of Judiaism and his followers are called "Zealots"

    Of maybe Christ was a Samaritan?

    Christ uses the image of the Samaritan several times.

    The Samaritans had their own holy mountain, Mt. Gerizim. In 36 AD, a Samaritan prophet attempted to lead a group of follwers to the top of Mt Gerizim for the purpose of recovering certain artifacts associated with Moses. This leader who was the Samaritan equivalent of the Messiah, (the Taheb in Samaritan) was stopped by troops sent by Pontius Pilate and many of his followers were crucified. This is according to Josephus.
  10. Donationkirksey957
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    22 Nov '07 08:24
    Originally posted by Red Night
    Samaria and Galilee are different places and each is separate from Judeah. The people of all three places essentially believed the same things.

    The samaritans were not carried to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar, for that they were shunned by the Jews of Judeah.


    Was Christ a Judean or a Galilean? Nazareth is in Galilee. Bethlehem is in Judeah. The tra ...[text shortened]... tius Pilate and many of his followers were crucified. This is according to Josephus.
    That is all rather academic. Have you let Jesus in your heart?
  11. Cape Town
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    22 Nov '07 08:39
    Originally posted by whodey
    I don't understand your question.
    You implied that Jesus 'used' all ten lepers simply to make a point, and made sure that only the Samaritan was saved. Surely this violates all the principles of free will?
  12. Donationrwingett
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    22 Nov '07 13:21
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    I'm preaching a thanksgiving sermon and using Luke 17:11-19 as my text. I'm kind of throwing this out as a passage to reflect on for Thanksgiving. What are your thoughts on this passage?

    I should add that I have already written my sermon so I'm not asking you to write it for me or do my homework.
    Clearly the passage is about raising the political consciousness of the oppressed. The term 'leper' in this case is a metaphorical usage for an outcast. In this case the lepers represent the poor and downtrodden of the earth. Those who are alienated and exploited by the system in which they live. They are "afar off" in the sense that they are among the lowest social class, far below the ruling priestly class.

    When Jesus meets them, not knowing what else to do, they asked him for mercy. When Jesus tells them to show themselves to the priests, what he means is for them to organize and demand the priests end their oppression. For them to be "cleansed" means they no longer passively accepted their role as a docile lower class. With their newly awakened political consciousness, they saw themselves as fully human, with an equal right to share in the bounty of the earth.

    The one who returned to thank Jesus was "made whole" in the sense that he saw that it was not enough to gain mere concessions from the ruling priestly class. The other nine 'won the strike', as it were, but left the system of exploitation intact. The one who returned to Jesus saw that such a system was inherently unjust and that it must be done away with by following Jesus' revolutionary program of political activism. Only by working to usher in an egalitarian "Kingdom of God", on this earth, could he hope to achieve salvation. It was this realization that made him whole.

    So, in short, the passage is about raising political awareness. But its also a warning that the current system cannot be reformed, but must be transcended. It would be necessary for the people, the former "lepers" of the earth, to build the Kingdom of God to put an end to their exploitation. Jesus wasn't going to do the work for them. They had to do it themselves.
  13. Donationkirksey957
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    22 Nov '07 14:45
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Clearly the passage is about raising the political consciousness of the oppressed. The term 'leper' in this case is a metaphorical usage for an outcast. In this case the lepers represent the poor and downtrodden of the earth. Those who are alienated and exploited by the system in which they live. They are "afar off" in the sense that they are among the lowe ...[text shortened]... ation. Jesus wasn't going to do the work for them. They had to do it themselves.
    Do you fault Jesus for , as you say, "not doing the work for them?"
  14. Donationrwingett
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    22 Nov '07 14:51
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    Do you fault Jesus for , as you say, "not doing the work for them?"
    No, of course not. That was the entire point of his message, that the people had to build a kingdom worthy of god themselves in the here and now. And not that god would deliver his kingdom into their lap in some distant future. Jesus pointed the way, but it wasn't just going to magically come to pass. The people had to do the hard work themselves to demonstrate that they were worthy.
  15. Donationkirksey957
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    22 Nov '07 14:54
    Originally posted by rwingett
    No, of course not. That was the entire point of his message, that the people had to build a kingdom worthy of god themselves in the here and now. And not that god would deliver his kingdom into their lap in some distant future. Jesus pointed the way, but it wasn't just going to magically come to pass. The people had to do the hard work themselves to demonstrate that they were worthy.
    I dedect cracks in your atheistic wall. But don't worry. I haven't seen RBHill around here in a long time.
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