Originally posted by kirksey957 I dedect cracks in your atheistic wall. But don't worry. I haven't seen RBHill around here in a long time.
A quick glance might seem to validate that point of view. But its not quite that simple.
First of all, I'm merely giving my interpretation of what Jesus said. I'm not saying that I'm a follower.
Secondly, even if I was a follower, my interpretation of "the kingdom of god" could be very different from your's. You could take it one of two ways. In the first, the spirit of god would literally enter into a kingdom that was built according to his wishes and give it his blessing. In the second, god's spirit would enter such a kingdom only metaphorically. One's literal belief in an actual god would be secondary to whether one lived by Jesus' teachings, which stressed right action in this world, and not right belief in the next.
Originally posted by rwingett A quick glance might seem to validate that point of view. But its not quite that simple.
First of all, I'm merely giving my interpretation of what Jesus said. I'm not saying that I'm a follower.
Secondly, even if I was a follower, my interpretation of "the kingdom of god" could be very different from your's. You could take it one of two ways. In the ...[text shortened]... teachings, which stressed right action in this world, and not right belief in the next.
I want to commend you for posting your wedding pics. I can tell that on some level you are a Christian in that you are like the 10th leper who returned to say thank you and celebrate. Of course I know there are some on the site that would get married and never say a damn thing about it except that they got married. We all can't be that 10th leper, can we?
Originally posted by kirksey957 I want to commend you for posting your wedding pics. I can tell that on some level you are a Christian in that you are like the 10th leper who returned to say thank you and celebrate. Of course I know there are some on the site that would get married and never say a damn thing about it except that they got married. We all can't be that 10th leper, can we?
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What have my wedding pics got to do with the 10th leper? I'm afraid you've lost me on that one.
What have my wedding pics got to do with the 10th leper? I'm afraid you've lost me on that one.
See, the 10th leper is opened up to a whole new community in his decision to come back and say "thank you." I remember when you posted the pics how interested people were in you and your wife. There was all kinds of well wishin going on. That's all. I know it's disturbing and all for me to make my tent big enought to include you.
Originally posted by twhitehead You implied that Jesus 'used' all ten lepers simply to make a point, and made sure that only the Samaritan was saved. Surely this violates all the principles of free will?
Just because someone knows what your free will will be in no way dictates that it is manipulated. For example, just because I know how certain people will respond to me in certain ways simply because i "know them" in no way means that I have forced them to act in such a way.
Originally posted by whodey Just because someone knows what your free will will be in no way dictates that it is manipulated. For example, just because I know how certain people will respond to me in certain ways simply because i "know them" in no way means that I have forced them to act in such a way.
Stop skirting around the issue. Either he used them or he didn't. If he did then he violated their free will. I don't really get your defense at all, are you saying that it just happened by chance that they made the right choices to fit into his intended message? Are you saying that by using his infinite knowledge he manipulated them into responding the way he wanted? Surely that is a violation of their free will?
And yes, if you cause people to respond to you in a certain way because you "know them" then you are in effect forcing them to act in a certain way.
Originally posted by twhitehead Stop skirting around the issue. Either he used them or he didn't. If he did then he violated their free will. I don't really get your defense at all, are you saying that it just happened by chance that they made the right choices to fit into his intended message? Are you saying that by using his infinite knowledge he manipulated them into responding the w ...[text shortened]... ain way because you "know them" then you are in effect forcing them to act in a certain way.
He used them as and example He highlighted their free will, showing
that they did not show the same thankfulness of the one who came
back. I don't see how you are making this an issue of a violation of
free will, if they did not have it, they could not have done anything
right or wrong, they could not have been thankful or ungrateful, they
would have just done whatever they were programmed to do.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJay He used them as and example He highlighted their free will, showing
that they did not show the same thankfulness of the one who came
back. I don't see how you are making this an issue of a violation of
free will, if they did not have it, they could not have done anything
right or wrong, they could not have been thankful or ungrateful, they
would have just done whatever they were programmed to do.
Kelly
There is nothing like a discussion of free will to throw water on the celebration of an atheist becoming a Christian. No one seems to care except the angels rejoicing in heaven, that Rwingett is a Christian.
Originally posted by twhitehead Stop skirting around the issue. Either he used them or he didn't. If he did then he violated their free will. I don't really get your defense at all, are you saying that it just happened by chance that they made the right choices to fit into his intended message? Are you saying that by using his infinite knowledge he manipulated them into responding the w ...[text shortened]... ain way because you "know them" then you are in effect forcing them to act in a certain way.
Did I coerse you to respond this way because I knew you are not a person of faith?
Originally posted by kirksey957 There is nothing like a discussion of free will to throw water on the celebration of an atheist becoming a Christian. No one seems to care except the angels rejoicing in heaven, that Rwingett is a Christian.
Originally posted by kirksey957 There is nothing like a discussion of free will to throw water on the celebration of an atheist becoming a Christian. No one seems to care except the angels rejoicing in heaven, that Rwingett is a Christian.
I deny Jesus' divinity. I do not believe he was the Christ. So even if I say the non-Pauline Jesus was OK, by definition I cannot be a Christian.
I don't think Jesus was a Christian either. I think he was a Jew who came to reform Judaism. I don't think he intended to start a new religion at all.
Originally posted by rwingett I deny Jesus' divinity. I do not believe he was the Christ. So even if I say the non-Pauline Jesus was OK, by definition I cannot be a Christian.
I don't think Jesus was a Christian either. I think he was a Jew who came to reform Judaism. I don't think he intended to start a new religion at all.
You do not thnk Jesus was a Christian? You know where it was that
people were first called Christians and why?
Kelly
Originally posted by rwingett I deny Jesus' divinity. I do not believe he was the Christ. So even if I say the non-Pauline Jesus was OK, by definition I cannot be a Christian.
I don't think Jesus was a Christian either. I think he was a Jew who came to reform Judaism. I don't think he intended to start a new religion at all.
Passage for Thanksgiving
22 Nov '07 15:121 edit
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