Paul and submissive women

Does this only apply only to the Corinthians or to all women?

34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

35 And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Originally posted by moon1969
Does this only apply only to the Corinthians or to all women?

34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

35 And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

My mother is a piano player and singer in the church; she doesn't follow the command to keep silent. When the issue is raised, she usually counters with a verse like the following:

3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7 A man ought not to cover his head,b since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
1 Cor 11:3-7

Although still sexist, this verse makes it sound like the woman is allowed to pray and prophesy, instead of just shutting up.

Edit: My dad is of the more hardline persuasion and will instantly get up and leave if a woman is allowed to preach the sermon. He is barely able to tolerate female worship leaders. He doesn't go to the same church as my mom.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
My mother is a piano player and singer in the church; she doesn't follow the command to keep silent. When the issue is raised, she usually counters with a verse like the following:
[quote]3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies ...[text shortened]... is barely able to tolerate female worship leaders. He doesn't go to the same church as my mom.

There is a clear theme of female leaders throughout the Bible, some books even being named after them. I believe Paul was literally speaking the truth - to those of a particular church, in a particular condition at a particular time.

This is a divisive situation for the contemporary church which sometimes has the tendency to extrapolate Biblical verses describing a situation or principal or disipline, to the whole global church. The church needs leaders who are close to the spirit of the Lords compassion, love and mercy.

Originally posted by divegeester
There is a clear theme of female leaders throughout the Bible, some books even being named after them. I believe Paul was literally speaking the truth - to those of a particular church, in a particular condition at a particular time.

This is a divisive situation for the contemporary church which sometimes has the tendency to extrapolate Biblical vers ...[text shortened]... . The church needs leaders who are close to the spirit of the Lords compassion, love and mercy.

But this subjugation of women goes beyond Paul, it is also in the bible 'a man is worth 50 shekels, a woman 35.' That pretty much tells it all right there. God hates vagina's. And since god is always thought of as 'he', it follows that since god doesn't think so much of women, god must be gay.

Originally posted by sonhouse
But this subjugation of women goes beyond Paul, it is also in the bible 'a man is worth 50 shekels, a woman 35.' That pretty much tells it all right there. God hates vagina's. And since god is always thought of as 'he', it follows that since god doesn't think so much of women, god must be gay.

That's not how I see what's written about women throughout the Bible.

You strike me as someone who is angry and clutching at whatever gravel they can find to throw.

Originally posted by divegeester
That's not how I see what's written about women throughout the Bible.

You strike me as someone who is angry and clutching at whatever gravel they can find to throw.

Ah, so tell me, how many female popes have there been? How long have women been forced to not use any form of contraception? Why can't women get a drivers license in Saudi? Why do women get less pay even now?

You think this is just an accident? The combined intelligence pool of women are at least equal to the combined intelligence pool of men so we have been shooting ourselves in the foot intelligence wise for thousands of years.

Men don't want women to be considered to be equal. That is a fact. I won't say 100% but a high percentage of them don't and a lot of it is due to pervasive sexism in religions.

Yes that ticks me off. We need all the intellectual help we can get and attempting to block of half of our intellectual inheritance is stupid. But that's men for you.

BTW, are you saying that quote I mentioned is not in the bible?

Originally posted by moon1969
Does this only apply only to the Corinthians or to all women?

34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

35 And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

If anyone wants an alternative view of Paul's attitude to women, they should read the Acts of St Paul and Thecla, where Paul evangelises to a young girl, Thecla, who subsequently goes onto preaching around the mediterranean baptising and encouraging virginity.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Ah, so tell me, how many female popes have there been? How long have women been forced to not use any form of contraception? Why can't women get a drivers license in Saudi? Why do women get less pay even now?

You think this is just an accident? The combined intelligence pool of women are at least equal to the combined intelligence pool of men so we have ...[text shortened]... But that's men for you.

BTW, are you saying that quote I mentioned is not in the bible?

Angry much? Try to calm down and consider one part of your rage at a time.

Originally posted by divegeester
Angry much? Try to calm down and consider one part of your rage at a time.

You mean while you actively shove aside the charges and it's business as usual? I get the feeling you LIKE being on top of the gender gap. That you would feel personally threatened by women being considered *shudder*, equal.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You mean while you actively shove aside the charges and it's business as usual? I get the feeling you LIKE being on top of the gender gap. That you would feel personally threatened by women being considered *shudder*, equal.

Actually I'm well known for preferring a woman who can hold me down.

Originally posted by divegeester
Actually I'm well known for preferring a woman who can hold me down.

Nice deflection. It seems you are not ready to discuss the real issue.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Nice deflection. It seems you are not ready to discuss the real issue.

You mean the issue of why the SA authorities alegedly deny women driving licences, or why you are unable to make a coherant point?

Originally posted by divegeester
You mean the issue of why the SA authorities alegedly deny women driving licences, or why you are unable to make a coherant point?

Or why you are unable to comprehend a problem. BTW, it's spelled allegedly. And it is not alleged, it is a verifiable fact. I gather you have not spent much time outside the house deep in Kentucky.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Or why you are unable to comprehend a problem. BTW, it's spelled allegedly. And it is not alleged, it is a verifiable fact. I gather you have not spent much time outside the house deep in Kentucky.

Exactly what problem are you referring to?

Originally posted by divegeester
Exactly what problem are you referring to?

I rest my case.