1. Standard memberNemesio
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    18 Sep '06 19:061 edit
    Quoting the following from the NYTimes:
    Although Benedict’s predecessor, John Paul II, issued several apologies for the historical failings of the church, experts said it appeared to be the first time in recent memory that a pope had made such a direct statement of personal regret. “This is really, really abnormal,” said Alberto Melloni, professor of history at the University of Modena who has written several books on the Vatican. “It’s never happened as far as I know.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/18/world/europe/18pope.html
    (Article available for only a week or so)

    While I certainly applaud the Pope for his apology for his comments --
    comments I feel were merely poorly considered, not insidious -- does
    it strike anyone, Roman Catholics in particular, that apologies are at
    the very best rare, and at worst non-existent?

    I mean, a figure like the Pope is going to be under a great deal of
    public scrutiny, which means his speeches and actions are going to be
    under a microscope. Given that he is a man and prone to error, just
    like all of the rest of the human race, don't you think that apologies
    would be more common? And, unlike political positions like, say, the
    idiotic American president, apologies for wrongs committed are part
    and parcel of Christian faith. I would think that they ought to be
    rather common, no?

    Nemesio

    Edit: That is, I don't expect the Pope to be apologetic on controversial
    issues upon which he has taken a dogmatic stance like abortion or
    contraception. However, I would think it would be a demonstration of
    Christ-likeness for a religious figurehead to apologize on behalf of
    his own actions as well as on behalf of the Church.

    What possible explanation can there be for the absence of person
    apology in 'recent history' or 'ever?'
  2. Standard membertelerion
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    18 Sep '06 19:081 edit
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Quoting the following from the NYTimes:
    Although Benedict’s predecessor, John Paul II, issued several apologies for the historical failings of the church, experts said it appeared to be [b]the first time in recent memory that a pope had made such a direct statement of personal regret. “This is really, really abnormal,”
    said Alberto Melloni, professor ...[text shortened]... rcel of Christian faith. I would think that they ought to be
    rather common, no?

    Nemesio[/b]
    Like maybe sorry about the "no condom" thing?
  3. Joined
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    18 Sep '06 19:26
    Originally posted by telerion
    Like maybe sorry about the "no condom" thing?
    Or the whole "we can't resist the temptation to rape your sons" thing?
  4. Joined
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    18 Sep '06 19:30
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Or the whole "we can't resist the temptation to rape your sons" thing?
    aw c'mon, if those boys are good chritians, they will forgive those priests!
  5. Standard memberNemesio
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    18 Sep '06 19:37
    Originally posted by Jee
    aw c'mon, if those boys are good chritians, they will forgive those priests!
    I sincerely hope that this is a tongue-in-cheek comment.
  6. Unknown Territories
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    18 Sep '06 20:372 edits
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Quoting the following from the NYTimes:
    Although Benedict’s predecessor, John Paul II, issued several apologies for the historical failings of the church, experts said it appeared to be [b]the first time in recent memory that a pope had made such a direct statement of personal regret. “This is really, really abnormal,”
    said Alberto Melloni, professor xplanation can there be for the absence of person
    apology in 'recent history' or 'ever?'[/b]
    "I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address which were considered offensive.’’

    I don't see the old man as apologizing at all. I do see him tweaking the insane terrorist fringe of the Islam world. For all intents and purposes, change a couple of pronouns, and any one of us could have made the same statement.
  7. Donationkirksey957
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    18 Sep '06 20:40
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Quoting the following from the NYTimes:
    [i]Although Benedict’s predecessor, John Paul II, issued several apologies for the historical failings of the church, experts said it appeared to be [b]the first time in recent memory that a pope had made such a direct statement of personal regret. “This is really, really abnormal,”
    said Alberto Melloni, professor ...[text shortened]... xplanation can there be for the absence of person
    apology in 'recent history' or 'ever?'[/b]
    He apologized because he probably felt that in the current climate of Muslim fanaticism where a cartoon is grounds for a war he needed to do some damage control.

    As I understand it, he was quoting someone who said religion cannot be spread by the sword and that was taken as an insult to Islam. I just wish he had said something like, "Hey, you don't like what I said fine. Welcome to the damn human race. It happens to all of us. You'll get over it."
  8. Standard membertelerion
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    18 Sep '06 20:58
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    "I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address which were considered offensive.’’

    I don't see the old man as apologizing at all. I do see him tweaking the insane terrorist fringe of the Islam world. For all intents and purposes, change a couple of pronouns, and any one of us could have made the same statement.
    That's true. It's a "I'm sorry you guys are such crybabies" apology. I'm no fan of the Pope, but if he's sticking it to extremist fundy muslims then more power to him.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Sep '06 21:061 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    "I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address which were considered offensive.’’

    I don't see the old man as apologizing at all. I do see him tweaking the insane terrorist fringe of the Islam world. For all intents and purposes, change a couple of pronouns, and any one of us could have made the same statement.
    That's a non-apology; any married man would be familiar with the format which is identical to "I'm sorry that YOU got so upset because I went to the Yankee game on our anniversary".

    The giveaway is "which were considered offensive.’’ No actual admission that the remarks were offensive.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Sep '06 21:11
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    He apologized because he probably felt that in the current climate of Muslim fanaticism where a cartoon is grounds for a war he needed to do some damage control.

    As I understand it, he was quoting someone who said religion cannot be spread by the sword and that was taken as an insult to Islam. I just wish he had said something like, "Hey, you don't ...[text shortened]... said fine. Welcome to the damn human race. It happens to all of us. You'll get over it."
    The exact quote that has been cited as offensive was this: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman,".

    Hard to see how that wouldn't be considered offensive by any Muslim.
  11. Unknown Territories
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    18 Sep '06 21:21
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    That's a non-apology; any married man would be familiar with the format which is identical to "I'm sorry that YOU got so upset because I went to the Yankee game on our anniversary".

    The giveaway is "which were considered offensive.’’ No actual admission that the remarks were offensive.
    It's the 'come-give-us-a-hug' that ends with a crushing of the agrieved's ribs.
  12. Donationkirksey957
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    18 Sep '06 21:22
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The exact quote that has been cited as offensive was this: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman,".

    Hard to see how that wouldn't be considered offensive by any Muslim.
    Yea, they say the same thing about everybody else and we tend to go with life.
  13. Unknown Territories
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    18 Sep '06 21:23
    Holy wars are just around the corner, it appears. Back to the Dark Ages for all of us. Anybody have a copy of Nivel Shute's "Kindling," by chance?
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    18 Sep '06 22:01
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    Yea, they say the same thing about everybody else and we tend to go with life.
    (Shrug) There seems to be more complaining by Christians about Muslims being offended by the offensive remarks then by Muslims about the offensive remarks.
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    18 Sep '06 22:071 edit
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Quoting the following from the NYTimes:
    Although Benedict’s predecessor, John Paul II, issued several apologies for the historical failings of the church, experts said it appeared to be [b]the first time in recent memory that a pope had made such a direct statement of personal regret. “This is really, really abnormal,”
    said Alberto Melloni, professor ...[text shortened]... lanation can there be for the absence of person
    apology in 'recent history' or 'ever?'[/b]
    I don't believe the Pope needed to apologise for his comments. If these prominent Muslims had read his speech they would realise that the Pope was discussing faith and reason which turned into Christian faith and Greek inquiry. The only criticism he made of Islam was that their image of God was one that was totally transcendant and beyond human reason. Hardly the cause for war.

    If something awful happens to the Pope as a result of this controversy it would be a loss to Muslims as well as Christians. The Pope probably knows more about Islamic scholarship than most Muslims.
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