@KellyJay saidDidn't you get the memo? We're in it already, whether you buy it or not.
Does anyone buy into the notion/narrative that we actually live in a post-truth universe, meaning there isn’t a meta-narrative, or to say it another way, there is no truth that is true for everyone, absolutely?
Trump is the embodiment of it. He lies, about everything. We know that he lies. He knows that we know that he lies. And still he lies. Tens of millions of people who know that he lies still hail him as the savior of the nation, as the man who will instigate Armageddon and usher in the final Rapture of the elect.
@moonbus saidHmm, do you define the universe by Trump? You should expand your horizon.
Didn't you get the memo? We're in it already, whether you buy it or not.
Trump is the embodiment of it. He lies, about everything. We know that he lies. He knows that we know that he lies. And still he lies. Tens of millions of people who know that he lies still hail him as the savior of the nation, as the man who will instigate Armageddon and usher in the final Rapture of the elect.
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@KellyJay saidBiden won the 2020 election fair and square; there is zero evidence to the contrary and multiple recounts confirmed Biden's victory. There is massively coherent evidence that evolution really happens and that the universe is about 14 billion years old (not only a few thousand)--yet some people still refuse to believe these things. There is a significant overlap between the groups of people who refuse to believe these things. Why is that? It's nothing to do with Trump per se. He merely highlights a more general phenomenon of people believing what they want to in defiance of evidence and reason to the contrary.
Hmm, do you define the universe by Trump? You should expand your horizon.
"Stupidity is seeing the truth, knowing the truth, but still believing the lies."
Richard Feynman
@moonbus saidThis post had nothing to do with Trump; those who think everything does tend to look at the universe only as it relates to Trump get a life.
Biden won the 2020 election fair and square; there is zero evidence to the contrary and multiple recounts confirmed Biden's victory. There is massively coherent evidence that evolution really happens and that the universe is about 14 billion years old (not only a few thousand)--yet some people still refuse to believe these things. There is a significant overlap between the gr ...[text shortened]... "Stupidity is seeing the truth, knowing the truth, but still believing the lies."
Richard Feynman
The post that was quoted here has been removedIf I understand you correctly, you are wisely recognizing that our opinions, our worldviews, and reality are not the same. Which, in my opinion, means that the closer to reality our views are, the more correct we are, and the further away from it, the more error we have. Which should, in my opinion, concern us so that we do not fool ourselves when we think we cannot be wrong about something.
@KellyJay saidI refer to Trump only because he embodies in very clear form a widely held attitude to life, which is that we live in a post-truth world. He would not be popular, or president right now, if many people did not share his 'transactional' view of the world. When people confront him with facts refuting his lies, he simply repeats the lies. Evangelicals have aligned themselves with him and his lies, and this, I maintain, is no coincidence--it is part of a gullible mindset, believing narratives instead of truth.
This post had nothing to do with Trump; those who think everything does tend to look at the universe only as it relates to Trump get a life.
@moonbus saidI don’t care why you invoke his name; those who hate him only see the universe as it relates to him. WHO CARES!
I refer to Trump only because he embodies in very clear form a widely held attitude to life, which is that we live in a post-truth world. He would not be popular, or president right now, if many people did not share his 'transactional' view of the world. When people confront him with facts refuting his lies, he simply repeats the lies. Evangelicals have aligned themselves wit ...[text shortened]... , is no coincidence--it is part of a gullible mindset, believing narratives instead of truth.
@KellyJay saidOK, we'll drop him from, the thread.
Does anyone buy into the notion/narrative that we actually live in a post-truth universe, meaning there isn’t a meta-narrative, or to say it another way, there is no truth that is true for everyone, absolutely?
The only truth which is true for everybody is, that there is no truth which is true for everybody. A friend of mine suggested as a universal truth that all parents love their children. I pointed out to him that a significant number of people in the world think that loving their daughters means cutting off their clitorises when they’re eight years old. Furthermore, that loving their children means arranging marriages for them, not for love. Furthermore, that loving their daughters means honor-killing, if their daughter should elope with a boy from the wrong tribe, or, heaven forbid, fall in love with another girl. I pointed out to him that for millions of people in the world, loving their daughters means not letting them go to school, where they might learn the facts about the world we live in. If you were to confront those people and tell them that they don’t really love their daughters, they would probably counter that Europeans and North Americans don’t love their own daughters, because they let their own daughters walk around in public without a male guardian, with their faces and even their belly buttons exposed, listening to satanic music, and that any parent who really loved his daughters would not allow them to do that.
@moonbus saidYour point is self-contradictory; you are dealing with absolutes, so to say there are absolute truths is, yes, an absolute truth. You are still pushing an absolute truth when you make the absolute claim that there are no absolute truths; you fail immediately on your own claim being applied to itself.
OK, we'll drop him from, the thread.
The only truth which is true for everybody is, that there is no truth which is true for everybody. A friend of mine suggested as a universal truth that all parents love their children. I pointed out to him that a significant number of people in the world think that loving their daughters means cutting off their clitorises when they’re e ...[text shortened]... o satanic music, and that any parent who really loved his daughters would not allow them to do that.
@KellyJay saidI think the way to put it is:
Does anyone buy into the notion/narrative that we actually live in a post-truth universe, meaning there isn’t a meta-narrative, or to say it another way, there is no truth that is true for everyone, absolutely?
* There are facts and you could say that the sum of all facts construct "the truth".
However mots of the facts aere not accesible. So there is no way for any human to know the "truth".
We do consider our reality as truth normally, but my reality is shaped by my perception and thus can't represent the truth.
@Ponderable saidYour opinion is your worldview, and as it runs up against reality, it must conform to reality or force you into an illusion of your own making.
I think the way to put it is:
* There are facts and you could say that the sum of all facts construct "the truth".
However mots of the facts aere not accesible. So there is no way for any human to know the "truth".
We do consider our reality as truth normally, but my reality is shaped by my perception and thus can't represent the truth.
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@KellyJay saidIs it no small wonder today, as people look at the present, let alone history, they call out their views on current events as if they know why others are doing what they are! If they like those involved in current events, they are virtuous, and if they are not well regarded, they are always the scum of the earth; both assume reality coincides with their feelings. That reality is what they want it to be, they could not possibly be wrong about the whys, so the world is colored as they want it to be. When spin is more important than the truth, the light of truth becomes an abhorrent reality that must be fought against in order to maintain the self-generated view of reality.
Your opinion is your worldview, and as it runs up against reality, it must conform to reality or force you into an illusion of your own making.