Power, control ... and finding freedom (VIS)

If I may add my 2 cents....

Eph 2:1-5
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
(NKJ)


The above verse is what the bible claims Christ sets us free from. That is, He empowers us to overcome the traps that the world(Satan) has set for us.

Here is another one....

Rom 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
(NKJ)

When we lose ourselves to Christ, we begin to be "transformed" like a caterpillar trnsforming into a beautiful butterfly. But notice it takes action on our part. We are to be a "living" sacrifice not a dead sacrifice. This is done by "renewing " our minds to the truths of the bible. We are to "put off" lies, stealing, etc.

Eph 4:11-16
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head-- Christ--
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
(NKJ)


Eph 4:17-32
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
25 Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
26 "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
27 nor give place to the devil.
28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
(NKJ)

What Christ sets us free from is the old sinful nature by giving us a choice and then "empowering us as Christians.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Don't you think sin, committing sin, turning to evil, has its consequenses ?

All actions & thoughts have consequences, potentially.

Embracing an abstract concept labeled good is liable to lead a body astray.

"No ideas but in things", please.

Good intentions doesn't always lead to favourable conditions for society at large or the individuals targeted. Some bad intentions end up being the source of prosperous living for many. Oh, my... it's a strange world, indeed.

Originally posted by stocken
Oh, my... it's a strange world, indeed.

A seductive world 🙂

"Without Contraries is no progression. Attraction & Repulsion, Reason & Energy, Love & Hate, are necessary to Human existence.

From these contraries spring what the religious call Good & Evil. Good is the passive that obeys Reason. Evil is the active springing from Energy.

Good is Heaven. Evil is Hell." (W. Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & Hell).

Rintrah roars and shakes his fires in the burden'd air;
Hungry clouds swag on the deep

Once meek, and in a perilous path,
The just man kept his course along
The vale of death.
Roses are planted where thorns grow.
And on the barren heath
Sing the honey bees.

Then the perilous path was planted:
And a river, and a spring
On every cliff and tomb;
And on the bleached bones
Red clay brought forth.

Till the villain left the paths of ease,
To walk in perilous paths, and drive
The just man into barren climes.

Now the sneaking serpent walks
In mild humility.
And the just man rages in the wilds
Where lions roam.

Rintrah roars & shakes his fires in the burden'd air;
Hungry clouds swag on the deep.

As a new heaven is begun, and it is now thirty-three years since its advent: the Eternal Hell revives. And lo! Swedenborg is the Angel sitting at the tomb; his writings are the linen clothes folded up. Now is the dominion of Edom, and the return of Adam into Paradise.

Without Contraries is no progression. Attraction and Repulsion, Reason and Energy, Love and Hate, are necessary to Human existence.
From these contraries spring what the religious call Good & Evil. Good is the passive that obeys Reason. Evil is the active springing from Energy.
Good is Heaven. Evil is Hell.

----------

I didn't get that Swedenborg name thing, though. Sounds stupid. Like a marriage between Sweden and Björn Borg. 😕

[Edit: and since Björn is swedish it would make for a nasty self-incestual scandal story!]

Originally posted by stocken
I didn't get that Swedenborg name thing, though. Sounds stupid. Like a marriage between Sweden and Björn Borg.

Sweden + Borg = Heaven + Hell? I don't get it either.

As for scandal, consider the implications of taking the Christ as Jesus' bride literally.

Swedenborg refers to Emmanuel Swedenborg, the Swedish mystic who held conversations with angels and other spirits. He lived not too long before Blake.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
All actions & thoughts have consequences, potentially.

Embracing an abstract concept labeled good is liable to lead a body astray.

"No ideas but in things", please.

How enigmatic ! Could you elaborate, please ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
How enigmatic !

I'm trying to be seductive.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I'm trying to be seductive.

You'd better take off your hat then ...... and stop speaking with your mouth full .......

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Sweden + Borg = Heaven + Hell? I don't get it either.

As for scandal, consider the implications of taking the Christ as Jesus' bride literally.

Swedenborg refers to Emmanuel Swedenborg, the Swedish mystic who held conversations with angels and other spirits. He lived not too long before Blake.

Oh, yes. Of course. I should know, shouldn't I? (Being swedish and all).

Originally posted by ivanhoe
You'd better take off your hat then ...... and stop speaking with your mouth full .......

Perhaps you find "no ideas but in things" obscure? It's a quote (W.C. Williams) and it means exactly what it says. It calls for interpretation. What's yours?

Originally posted by stocken
Oh, yes. Of course. I should know, shouldn't I? (Being swedish and all).

Does Swedenborg have a following in Sweden today? He was very popular in the 18th century but times have moved on.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Perhaps you find "no ideas but in things" obscure? It's a quote (W.C. Williams) and it means exactly what it says. It calls for interpretation. What's yours?

Here goes:



The Man With The Blue Guitar by Wallace Stevens.


One

The man bent over his guitar,
A shearsman of sorts. The day was green.

They said, "You have a blue guitar,
You do not play things as they are."

The man replied, "Things as they are
Are changed upon the blue guitar."

And they said to him, "But play, you must,
A tune beyond us, yet ourselves,

A tune upon the blue guitar,
Of things exactly as they are."

Two

I cannot bring a world quite round,
Although I patch it as I can.

I sing a hero's head, large eye
And bearded bronze, but not a man,

Although I patch him as I can
And reach through him almost to man.

If a serenade almost to man
Is to miss, by that, things as they are,

Say that it is the serenade
Of a man that plays a blue guitar.

Three

A tune beyond us as we are,
Yet nothing changed by the blue guitar;

Ourselves in tune as if in space,
Yet nothing changed, except the place

Of things as they are and only the place
As you play them on the blue guitar,
Placed, so, beyond the compass of change,
Perceived in a final atmosphere;

For a moment final, in the way
The thinking of art seems final when

The thinking of god is smoky dew.
The tune is space. The blue guitar

Becomes the place of things as they are,
A composing of senses of the guitar.

Four

Tom-tom c'est moi. The blue guitar
And I are one. The orchestra

Fills the high hall with shuffling men
High as the hall. The whirling noise

Of a multitude dwindles, all said,
To his breath that lies awake at night.

I know that timid breathing. Where
Do I begin and end? And where,

As I strum the thing, do I pick up
That which momentarily declares

Itself not to be I and yet
Must be. It could be nothing else.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Where
Do I begin and end? And where,

As I strum the thing, do I pick up
That which momentarily declares

Itself not to be I and yet
Must be. It could be nothing else.

Stevens' poetry obeys Williams' principle.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Does Swedenborg have a following in Sweden today? He was very popular in the 18th century but times have moved on.

I found this on the matter:

http://www.euro-tongil.org/swedish/emanuel5.htm

Written by Olle Hjern (a swedish chief priest in the lord's new church - whatever that means) and the writer of: "Swedenborg och hans vänner i Göteborg" (1990) "Swedenborg and his friends in Gothenburg".

Roughly translating the beginning paragraphs:

Swedenborgs religious impact on the world

The most distinguishing feature of swedenborganism has from the very beginning been the social heritage. For both historical and ideological reasons the largest number of followers are black people in both western and southern africa. Since the beginning of this new century thousands of people have been captured by the teachings of Swedenborg and formed congregations in Ghana, Nigeria, Southafrica, Lesotho and Zimbabwe. The same is true in many other countries in Europe, North America, India, Japan, Korea and in Australia.

----

As for Sweden, there are clearly followers of Swedenborg here. I just didn't know about them 'til a few minutes ago. 🙂

Swedenborg, as far as I can tell, was not just a theologian but somewhat a philosopher. Very interesting. I'll have to read some of his work now, don't I?

[Edit: Actually I'm not sure if it's black people in africa. Olle says: "anhängare i det svarta afrika", which directly translated, means: "followers in the black africa". I interpreted that as black people in africa, but he could have meant something else. Just thought I'd add this comment.]