Prayer

Rajk999

Spirituality

18 May '12 12:22

Rajk999
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18 May '12 12:222 edits
Sometimes people forget what Christ said about prayer and praying.

Christ said : After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. (Matthew 6:9-13)

So some of the things to pray for :
- for the kingdom to come
- for God to take care of your basic needs - health, food, clothes and shelter
- for forgiveness of our sins and for us to forgive others
- for strength to resist temptation

Christ also explained how NOT to pray : And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. (Matthew 6:5-8)

So it seems that some things NOT to pray for are:
- Do not pray for material and worldly goods
- Do not pray for money or riches

And things NOT to do when praying :
- do not pray for others to hear
- do not shout
- do not pray to be seen of others. Pray in privacy
- do not repeat yourself

I went to a Pentecostal church recently and while praying they shouted, they repeated the same thing over and over and they prayed for money and prosperity.

Not too sure those prayers will go well with God.

Does anyone care the share their experiences with how different churches carry on their prayers?
twhitehead
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18 May '12 13:55
Originally posted by Rajk999

So some of the things to pray for :
- for the kingdom to come
- for God to take care of your basic needs - health, food, clothes and shelter
- for forgiveness of our sins and for us to forgive others
- for strength to resist temptation

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard f ...[text shortened]... for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. (Matthew 6:5-8)
Seems a bit of a contradiction to me. You pray for things which are fairly general - and therefore should only require to be prayed for once in your lifetime, since repetition is not desirable. Also, why pray at all since God already knows what you need?
jaywill
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18 May '12 14:344 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999
Sometimes people forget what Christ said about prayer and praying.

Christ said : [i] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptat ...[text shortened]... Does anyone care the share their experiences with how different churches carry on their prayers?
So it seems that some things NOT to pray for are:
- Do not pray for material and worldly goods
- Do not pray for money or riches

And things NOT to do when praying :
- do not pray for others to hear
- do not shout
- do not pray to be seen of others. Pray in privacy
- do not repeat yourself

[/i]

You are really legal.

I could shoot down every single legality you list here. Why are you so legalistic ?

Did Jesus not pray for people to HEAR Him in John 11 ?

"And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. And I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the crowd standing around, I said it, that they may believe that You have sent Me." (John 11:42)

Here Jesus prayed deliberately so that the crowd standing around would hear Him and believe.

Your other examples are bogus too but my time is limited.

Excuse yourself from this foolish legality of never praying so others can hear. Jesus prayed for them to hear. Why then is it ALWAYS wrong to do so ?
SwissGambit
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18 May '12 15:07
"Now YOU come along and pray for something ... suppose it isn't in the [divine] plan. What do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? ... but they say 'thy will be done'. But if it's God's will and he's going to do what he wants to anyway, why not just skip the prayer part and go straight to his will?"
-George Carlin (paraphrased a bit)
SwissGambit
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18 May '12 15:081 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999
Sometimes people forget what Christ said about prayer and praying.

Christ said : After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptat ...[text shortened]... anyone care the share their experiences with how different churches carry on their prayers?
Where does the Bible say not to pray for riches?
Rajk999
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18 May '12 18:51
Originally posted by jaywill
So it seems that some things NOT to pray for are:
- Do not pray for material and worldly goods
- Do not pray for money or riches

And things NOT to do when praying :
- do not pray for others to hear
- do not shout
- do not pray to be seen of others. Pray in privacy
- do not repeat yourself

[/i]

You are really lega ...[text shortened]... ying so others can hear. Jesus prayed for them to hear. Why then is it ALWAYS wrong to do so ?
First I dont understand what you mean by 'being legal'. Its not a 'slang' in common usage all over the world. What do you mean by that?

Next, do you take such offense to the words of Christ because you are a pentecostal?

Shoot down. Go right ahead. Whats the purpose of this forum if you dont support your view ?
Rajk999
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18 May '12 18:53
Originally posted by twhitehead
Seems a bit of a contradiction to me. You pray for things which are fairly general - and therefore should only require to be prayed for once in your lifetime, since repetition is not desirable. Also, why pray at all since God already knows what you need?
Being repetitive [as if you dont already know]. means not repeating the same thing in the same prayer over and over.
Rajk999
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18 May '12 19:131 edit
Originally posted by SwissGambit
Where does the Bible say not to pray for riches?
The Bible does tell you what NOT to pray for. You can pray for whatever you want. You can pray for all politicians and crooked accountants to be killed in a tidal wave, or to win the $200M US lottery, or to have 1000 girlfriends, or for fancy cars etc.

Christ recommends however, a certain type of prayer which includes :
- recognition of God and his greatness
- asking for the second return of Christ
- asking for God to look after our basic needs
- asking God for forgiveness of sins etc

Other matters of a personal nature are fine but to ask God to help you with greed, vanity and worldliness is [in my opinion ] an insult to God who all over the Bible condemns those qualities.

As usual I am a Christian and I do not plan to encourage atheists to argue nonsense, so unless you ask a very intelligent question or raise some important issue I wont be responding to further foolish questions. Nothing personal.
SwissGambit
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19 May '12 03:52
Originally posted by Rajk999
The Bible does tell you what NOT to pray for. You can pray for whatever you want. You can pray for all politicians and crooked accountants to be killed in a tidal wave, or to win the $200M US lottery, or to have 1000 girlfriends, or for fancy cars etc.

Christ recommends however, a certain type of prayer which includes :
- recognition of God and his gre ...[text shortened]... raise some important issue I wont be responding to further foolish questions. Nothing personal.
You specifically said "Do not pray for money or riches". If you don't view discussion of your own claims as 'some important issue', then by all means, do not respond any further. 🙂

A wise man once noted:
Whats the purpose of this forum if you dont support your view ?
Rajk999
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19 May '12 12:34
Originally posted by SwissGambit
You specifically said "Do not pray for money or riches". If you don't view discussion of your own claims as 'some important issue', then by all means, do not respond any further. 🙂

A wise man once noted:
Whats the purpose of this forum if you dont support your view ?
Well I answered your question. The Bible presents a negative view of riches, greed, vanity and worldly goods. So it is not something a God-fearing person would pray for.

Now this is the second time I answered your question. If you have an opposing viewpoint I would be interested in hearing it. If you value the 'wise man's' comment you should support your opinion with some solid points rather than simply questioning mine.
twhitehead
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19 May '12 14:40
Originally posted by Rajk999
Being repetitive [as if you dont already know]. means not repeating the same thing in the same prayer over and over.
I don't get the difference. Why is it OK to pray the same thing every single day but not twice in the same prayer? Does God get less bored with you that way?
SwissGambit
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19 May '12 16:501 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999
Well I answered your question. The Bible presents a negative view of riches, greed, vanity and worldly goods. So it is not something a God-fearing person would pray for.

Now this is the second time I answered your question. If you have an opposing viewpoint I would be interested in hearing it. If you value the 'wise man's' comment you should support your opinion with some solid points rather than simply questioning mine.
I'm not so sure that's right. Here's a few counterexamples.

Pray to conquer other nations [which brings greed, wealth, goods and vanity with it]
Psalm 2:7 I will proclaim the Lord’s decree:

He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have become your father.
8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You will break them with a rod of iron;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery. ”

God is willing to reward the faithful with women, power, and riches, and give them more if they complain it is not enough:
7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more.

Then there's the Ark of the Covenant - everything, including the poles and the interior, was overlaid with gold. That's some serious bling. See Exodus 25 [a bit too long to quote here] for a complete list of all the fine linens, gems, and gold required for the ark, temple, high priest's garment, etc. Point being, God asked for things he knew Israel possessed. Expensive worldly goods.
Rajk999
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20 May '12 01:15
Originally posted by SwissGambit
I'm not so sure that's right. Here's a few counterexamples.

Pray to conquer other nations [which brings greed, wealth, goods and vanity with it]
[quote]Psalm 2:7 I will proclaim the Lord’s decree:

He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have become your father.
8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the ...[text shortened]... etc. Point being, God asked for things he knew Israel possessed. Expensive worldly goods.
If you notice the thread about what kinds of prayer Jesus Christ recommends.
You have not posted anything which contradicts that.
Can you point out any example of someone praying for riches and receiving it from God?
There is nothing wrong with material wealth. There is something wrong with focusing on it or asking God for it.
Rajk999
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20 May '12 01:16
Originally posted by twhitehead
I don't get the difference. Why is it OK to pray the same thing every single day but not twice in the same prayer? Does God get less bored with you that way?
Sorry I cannot explain further.
SwissGambit
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20 May '12 03:01
Originally posted by Rajk999
If you notice the thread about what kinds of prayer Jesus Christ recommends.
You have not posted anything which contradicts that.
Can you point out any example of someone praying for riches and receiving it from God?
There is nothing wrong with material wealth. There is something wrong with focusing on it or asking God for it.
You are correct - I have not contradicted Jesus. I have contradicted you. I think you included some prayer 'rules' that Jesus never made, or anyone in the Bible, for that matter.

If memory serves, there is no example in the Bible of someone specifically praying for wealth and getting it. However, we do have the example of King David. God said that if everything he had given David had not been enough, he would have given him more. Such a request would not only be an acceptable prayer, but God would have granted the request. And it was not like David was limited to asking for single women or wealth in the form of economic growth. God had been and still was willing to take these things from others and give them to David.

Earlier you said:
The Bible presents a negative view of riches, greed, vanity and worldly goods.
...and now we have "There is nothing wrong with material wealth." Does this mean that riches and worldly goods are now crossed off the list of Things Viewed Negatively by the Bible?

Does the Bible say there is something wrong with focusing on wealth? Sure. But does it say it is wrong to ask for it? No, not really.