precognotion

gods knows everything, so i am told. so does he find watching over his slaves boring? he knew i was going to type this. he knew you were going to read it, he read it before i wrote it. he's seen it all and most of it is pretty bloody boring. its like watching repeats of the universes worst soap opera. so if he knew before i did that i was going to write this, then i had no choice but to write this and you had no choice but to read it. so how can i or you possibly have free will!!!!!!

Originally posted by stellspalfie
gods knows everything, so i am told. so does he find watching over his slaves boring? he knew i was going to type this. he knew you were going to read it, he read it before i wrote it. he's seen it all and most of it is pretty bloody boring. its like watching repeats of the universes worst soap opera. so if he knew before i did that i was going to write ...[text shortened]... te this and you had no choice but to read it. so how can i or you possibly have free will!!!!!!

I don't see how knowing an outcome has any impact on the cause of the outcome.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
gods knows everything, so i am told. so does he find watching over his slaves boring? he knew i was going to type this. he knew you were going to read it, he read it before i wrote it. he's seen it all and most of it is pretty bloody boring. its like watching repeats of the universes worst soap opera. so if he knew before i did that i was going to write ...[text shortened]... te this and you had no choice but to read it. so how can i or you possibly have free will!!!!!!

God is outside time so he doesn't 'experience' things, so he cant get bored.

Originally posted by divegeester
I don't see how knowing an outcome has any impact on the cause of the outcome.

It tells us something about causality. If the outcome can be known, then outcomes are entirely a result of causes with no random inputs. This then tells us that there must be a "First Cause", or "first causes" and that all events are a direct result of that cause or causes and since God claims to be that "first cause", he is directly responsible for everything and since he knows the future, he knew what would happen when he caused it all.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
gods knows everything, so i am told. so does he find watching over his slaves boring? he knew i was going to type this. he knew you were going to read it, he read it before i wrote it. he's seen it all and most of it is pretty bloody boring. its like watching repeats of the universes worst soap opera. so if he knew before i did that i was going to write ...[text shortened]... te this and you had no choice but to read it. so how can i or you possibly have free will!!!!!!

We have free will so that we can (re-)allign our will to that of our dharma, ("God's" will for us).
It really is quite funny and amusing from a detached position (ie detached from matearilistic things, etc. ) , but from many of our ego-centered existences the humor can easily escape us.

"God" has a sense of humor, but firstly and foremostly "He/It" would like us to stop being in a separate relationship- in a relationship that is obscured by "indirect lighting" ,the way of the future is "direct lighting" .
Or so I am guided to believe. (Obviously you have to have your own take on this for it to make any sense).
So "God" is quietly nudging us to stop our diet of burgers and fries to a diet of pure light!!
90% preparation, 90%preparation !!
Thats where the human race is heading - thats what all the sages in history have been preparing for - from one life to the next.

Originally posted by twhitehead
God is outside time so he doesn't 'experience' things, so he cant get bored.

That's your guess. But do you really know? For sure?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
That's your guess. But do you really know? For sure?

Of course I am sure. Us theists never 'guess'. We 'have faith'.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Of course I am sure. Us theists never 'guess'. We 'have faith'.

Irony, wasn't it?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
gods knows everything, so i am told. so does he find watching over his slaves boring? he knew i was going to type this. he knew you were going to read it, he read it before i wrote it. he's seen it all and most of it is pretty bloody boring. its like watching repeats of the universes worst soap opera. so if he knew before i did that i was going to write ...[text shortened]... te this and you had no choice but to read it. so how can i or you possibly have free will!!!!!!

The Supreme Personality of Godhead is not interested in your mundane pathetic life.

God is only concerned with your spiritual life............if you ever start it.

You will never start your spiritual life if you don't have any desire to start it.

You will take another million births in this world of birth, disease, old age and death forever if you never start your spiritual life.

And when you do start your spiritual life - you will be insincere and embrace the meat eaters religion and make zero progress and you will take another million births in this world of suffering again and again and again.

Originally posted by Dasa
The Supreme Personality of Godhead is not interested in your mundane pathetic life.

God is only concerned with your spiritual life............if you ever start it.

You will never start your spiritual life if you don't have any desire to start it.

You will take another million births in this world of birth, disease, old age and death forever if you neve ...[text shortened]... and you will take another million births in this world of suffering again and again and again.

its funny that you say that because ive just had the supreme personality of godheads on the phone and he said we are cool. infact hes coming over on friday to watch old vhs's of the a-team and drink cheap cider. he did say he was a bit worried about you. he's sick of you calling and leaving text's all the time. he asked me if id have a word with you for him, as he's a little scared that you have become unhinged and have lost track of all the good things he tried to teach you. so on behalf of god, can you just back off for a while. the supreme personality needs some space. he thinks it would be a good idea for you to see other gods, it might help you get over him. oh yes, he aslo said the next time he catches you masturbating outside his bedroom window hes going to call the cops, okay?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
gods knows everything, so i am told. so does he find watching over his slaves boring? he knew i was going to type this. he knew you were going to read it, he read it before i wrote it. he's seen it all and most of it is pretty bloody boring. its like watching repeats of the universes worst soap opera. so if he knew before i did that i was going to write ...[text shortened]... te this and you had no choice but to read it. so how can i or you possibly have free will!!!!!!

If you know that your dog is going to eat the meat you left out on the counter, does that mean the dog doesn't have free will? 😵

Originally posted by twhitehead
It tells us something about causality. If the outcome can be known, then outcomes are entirely a result of causes with no random inputs. This then tells us that there must be a "First Cause", or "first causes" and that all events are a direct result of that cause or causes and since God claims to be that "first cause", he is directly responsible for everything and since he knows the future, he knew what would happen when he caused it all.

I was with you right up till you started talking about first causes.

A deterministic universe/reality doesn't imply or require a beginning.

And thus does not imply or require a first cause.

And even if the universe does have a beginning, that doesn't imply that the 'first cause'
must be intelligent.


However i will agree that a god creating a deterministic universe where everything that
happens is predetermined and know by god cannot contain free will.

And also that if god had any choice as to how he made the universe and how things turned
out in it then that god is wholly and completely responsible for everything that occurs in it.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
If you know that your dog is going to eat the meat you left out on the counter, does that mean the dog doesn't have free will? 😵

Yes, the dog clearly cannot choose not to eat the meat. Either that, or you cannot be certain that it will. This is actually not that different from the famous 'believe in God' choice. Given sufficient evidence for God we would have no choice to believe in him. It would not be a choice. Therefore, in order for it to be a free will choice, God cannot give us sufficient evidence to believe in him. Therefore all theists must have made that choice without sufficient evidence.

Originally posted by googlefudge
A deterministic universe/reality doesn't imply or require a beginning.

Agreed.

And even if the universe does have a beginning, that doesn't imply that the 'first cause'
must be intelligent.
I was replying to a post in which the assumption is that God exists and knows the future. I felt it safe to assume that the God in question was the one defined as the creator.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
If you know that your dog is going to eat the meat you left out on the counter, does that mean the dog doesn't have free will? 😵

i dont know if the dog will eat the meat. im pretty sure he will, but he might fall over dead before he gets to the bowl or a million other things might happen. if i knew 100% that he was going to eat the meat then i would have magic powers.