1. Joined
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    04 Mar '08 02:40
    I was just wondering, Has anyone ever seen a statistical analysis of the probabilty of god's existence? I had a teacher in highschool who told me that some mathematician had come up with a formula proving there is a god. I also wondered if there had been any statistical analysis of the probability of the universe having been created by god. Thought it might make an interesting study.
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    04 Mar '08 03:19
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I was just wondering, Has anyone ever seen a statistical analysis of the probabilty of god's existence? I had a teacher in highschool who told me that some mathematician had come up with a formula proving there is a god. I also wondered if there had been any statistical analysis of the probability of the universe having been created by god. Thought it might make an interesting study.
    That's ridiculous, I'm sorry.
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    04 Mar '08 03:27
    Originally posted by serigado
    That's ridiculous, I'm sorry.
    Why is it ridiculous?
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    04 Mar '08 03:42
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Why is it ridiculous?
    "some mathematician had come up with a formula proving there is a god" -> this is ridiculous...

    any statistical analysis to god's probability also doesn't make sense...
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    04 Mar '08 10:061 edit
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I was just wondering, Has anyone ever seen a statistical analysis of the probabilty of god's existence?
    It has probably been done in various ways by various people with varying results.

    I had a teacher in highschool who told me that some mathematician had come up with a formula proving there is a god.
    I am guessing your teacher was not a mathematician himself? Mathematics can only prove mathematical results. Proof of existence (of anything) must rely on something other than mathematics.
    If the above mentioned mathematician exists, he has either been proved wrong, been ignored by his fellow mathematicians, or won a Nobel prize. I don't think he has won a Nobel prize.

    I also wondered if there had been any statistical analysis of the probability of the universe having been created by god. Thought it might make an interesting study.
    First off one would need to define the terms such as 'created' and 'God'.
    You must realize however than any probability calculation is based on certain assumptions especially some very crucial ones which would not really apply in this case.
    A probability calculation assumes that there is a particular set of possible outcomes with various probabilities of occurring already defined. It then uses various bits of additional information to calculate new probabilities for further outcomes.
    To give an example:
    I toss a coin twice, what is the probability of two heads.
    The calculation assumes that the coin could be heads or tails with equal probability on each toss. If that is false, then the result of the calculation is wrong.

    One critical factor is that the Supernatural Category, by definition, violates all probability laws and therefore it is incoherent to make probability calculations about it.
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    04 Mar '08 13:12
    Originally posted by serigado
    "some mathematician had come up with a formula proving there is a god" -> this is ridiculous...

    any statistical analysis to god's probability also doesn't make sense...
    Just telling you what I heard, man, no need to take it personally. She said she could get into trouble for showing us. I just wondered if anyone had heard of it.
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    04 Mar '08 13:25
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Just telling you what I heard, man, no need to take it personally. She said she could get into trouble for showing us. I just wondered if anyone had heard of it.
    1. She shouldn't be teaching in high school (at least not in the sciences).
    2. If you believed her then you should probably not have passed high school.
    3. Why do you think she might get into trouble for showing you? Are you a conspiracy theorist?
  8. Joined
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    04 Mar '08 14:03
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I was just wondering, Has anyone ever seen a statistical analysis of the probabilty of god's existence? I had a teacher in highschool who told me that some mathematician had come up with a formula proving there is a god. I also wondered if there had been any statistical analysis of the probability of the universe having been created by god. Thought it might make an interesting study.
    Could they perhaps be referring to Pascal's Wager? Set down by Blaise Pascal (the same man that lent his name to a certain triangle), it states that you may as well believe in God; if you do believe and there is no God, you have lost little but if you do not believe and there is a God, you have lost everything.

    The wiki entry explains it better,
    http://tinyurl.com/4ze2t
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    04 Mar '08 14:23
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Just telling you what I heard, man, no need to take it personally. She said she could get into trouble for showing us. I just wondered if anyone had heard of it.
    Nothing against you! 🙂
    I was just criticizing the sentences, I understood you're not defending anything and were just paraphrasing 🙂

    twhitehead is finishing very well the arguments I didn't have the patience to start.
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    04 Mar '08 14:27
    Originally posted by Swlabr
    Could they perhaps be referring to Pascal's Wager? Set down by Blaise Pascal (the same man that lent his name to a certain triangle), it states that you may as well believe in God; if you do believe and there is no God, you have lost little but if you do not believe and there is a God, you have lost everything.

    The wiki entry explains it better,
    http://tinyurl.com/4ze2t
    You can't control belief. I could say I believe, but I would be deceiving others and myself.
    If in the end there's a God, I can look him in the eyes and say I was always honest to me and others, and always did what was right. If he wants to punish me just for not believing him, that's not my fault. It's not my fault I was born a logical-deductive guy.
  11. Joined
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    04 Mar '08 14:444 edits
    Originally posted by serigado
    You can't control belief. I could say I believe, but I would be deceiving others and myself.
    If in the end there's a God, I can look him in the eyes and say I was always honest to me and others, and always did what was right. If he wants to punish me just for not believing him, that's not my fault. It's not my fault I was born a logical-deductive guy.
    It's not a good arguement for God. I don't think there can be such a thing as a "good argument" for God.

    I really want to expand my adove paragraph by saying something about being "saved by faith", that it is only through faith in Jesus that we are saved, and that is something I do believe (I am a Christian). However, I also believe that there is more to it than that.

    The bible says that "God is love". It also says that the only way to the father is through the son - the only way to eternal life, and all that that brings (the best part about Heaven is not eternal life, contrary to common belief - it's God!), is through Jesus. However, if God is love, then surely the only way to the father is through...love?

    Matthew 25:31-46 says,

    "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
    "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

    "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

    "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

    "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

    "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

    "He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

    "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


    Surely that is just love? Love covers a multitude of offences!

    However, that is not all. I feel that my meanderings almost say that there is no point in belief in God, which I would say is not true. However, this is where my magniloquent phrasing and deep though let me down. I know this to be true - that belief is most certainly important. I just cannot form my thoughts into words.

    Maybe another day I shall enter this forum and attempt to explain them some more, but for the moment I am off to a class...yay!
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    04 Mar '08 14:591 edit
    Originally posted by Swlabr
    It's not a good arguement for God. I don't think there can be such a thing as a "good argument" for God.

    I really want to reply to your post saying something about being "saved by faith", that it is only through faith in Jesus that we are saved, and that is something I do believe (I am a Christian). However, there is more to it than that.

    The bible says go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
    I have no beliefs. It goes against my personal construct of the Universe to have a belief or faith.
    I think there's nothing we shouldn't question, and from the moment someone tries to impose an absolute truth, I have a problem with it.

    People have natural fears, and when there's something that calms them, they feel comfortable following it. That makes a purpose for religion, but it doesn't make it true.

    I believe Jesus existed and was an extraordinary man with ideas far beyond his time. He inspired people so much, some felt the need to elevate him to a God, to pass his wonderful message. Nothing guarantees you that what's in the Bible really happened.

    And all that reasoning you wrote doesn't make sense, can't you see it?
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    04 Mar '08 15:06
    it is true, the guys in question put in some variables(questionable variables)
    and he got a larger than 0.5 probability that god exists
  14. Joined
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    04 Mar '08 16:114 edits
    Originally posted by serigado
    I have no beliefs. It goes against my personal construct of the Universe to have a belief or faith.
    I think there's nothing we shouldn't question, and from the moment someone tries to impose an absolute truth, I have a problem with it.

    People have natural fears, and when there's something that calms them, they feel comfortable following it. That makes a eally happened.

    And all that reasoning you wrote doesn't make sense, can't you see it?
    What part of it doesn't make sense?

    Also, you said you had no beliefs, but also you believe that Jesus existed...not to be pernickity or anything...😉

    Yes, "nothing guarantees you that what's in the Bible really happened.". I was trying (and failing) to convey that at the start of my last post. There is no "good argument" for the existence of God. However, just because nothing guarantees it, that does not mean it didn't happen.

    This leads me onto faith, as I wanted to talk about earlier. Christianity is not based on logical thought. It is based on faith, hope and love. (NOTE: hope is more a "knowledge that it is true", not a "I hope it's true, if that makes sense? The meaning, if i remember correctly, is lost through time and translation).

    The Israelites fled Egypt after Moses the chain of miracles - the locus, the Nile turning red, etc . As they fled, the red sea opened up to let them pass. When they were wandering through the desert they were led by a cloud in the day and a pillar of light at night; they were fed by food that miraculously appeared overnight (manna); they drank water from rocks. They were presented with oh so much proof of God, and yet they ended up worshipping a golden calf.

    Moses, however, a man of great faith, did not worship the calf. He stood strong.

    I know my example is from the Bible, and so I feel that it you will not accept it as much as you would an example from real life. However, I feel my point still stands; that faith is stronger than logical thought. Thus, God uses faith, letting us build up our relationship with him in faith.
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    04 Mar '08 17:071 edit
    Originally posted by Swlabr
    What part of it doesn't make sense?

    Also, you said you had no beliefs, but also you believe that Jesus existed...not to be pernickity or anything...😉

    Yes, "nothing guarantees you that what's in the Bible really happened.". I was trying (and failing) to convey that at the start of my last post. There is no "good argument" for the existence of God. Howev hought. Thus, God uses faith, letting us build up our relationship with him in faith.
    What part of it doesn't make sense?
    from the beginning "saved by faith", believe in jesus to be saved, and so on.. Only way to the father is through the son... all this doesn't make any sense.
    Saved from what?? Is anyone in danger? Doesn't it look like it was all a made story to push people into a new belief? It does, to me... How can someone eat those stories without questioning?
    If you want to make a point about your religion, it HAS to connect to the reality I see. Quoting from the Bible and arguing from the Bible is nothing palpable.
    What makes you belief in Jesus? It's a good message, and you got sympathetic to the cause? You can believe the message and follow it without the nonsense.

    Also, you said you had no beliefs, but also you believe that Jesus existed...not to be pernickity or anything...😉
    Oh, well... it's just a way of speaking. I often use the word "believe" as "I think there's a good probability it happened, although I can't say for sure".

    There is no "good argument" for the existence of God. However, just because nothing guarantees it, that does not mean it didn't happen.
    We agree. So why believe??

    This leads me onto faith, as I wanted to talk about earlier. Christianity is not based on logical thought. It is based on faith, hope and love.
    Why do you have faith? You can have hope and love without Christianity. Is it because it makes you feel more comfortable?
    I act and think with logic. I can't make a leap of faith and throw away reality so I can enter the parallel world where people are saved by faith and etc... it's just too much.

    I know my example is from the Bible, and so I feel that it you will not accept it as much as you would an example from real life. However, I feel my point still stands; that faith is stronger than logical thought. Thus, God uses faith, letting us build up our relationship with him in faith.
    Faith is induced. Logic is absolute and undeniable. What makes your faith correct? How can you say it's true? Because you feel so? That feeling is being fed by a possible lie, do you realize this?
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