Proof of the non-existence of God

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]The main idea though, is that I claim to know that God exists through experience.

So? I have no grounds for taking your claim seriously. Are you going to provide me with some, or what?[/b]

Only if you can get inside my head. Otherwise you will have to take my word for it.

Originally posted by rwingett
From my loving wife, who is also an atheist.

Why do you celebrate Christmas?

Originally posted by divegeester
Khightmeister made a good point related his personal relationship with his wife. To compare that to a childs assotiation with santa and getting toys is complete worthless trite.

no1 questioned the logic of the whole thread, not just the post quoted. The problem is that the wife analogy isn't a very good one. A husband doesn't purport to claim that his wife will love everyone the same way she loves him [unless he's a swinger or something]. The usual christian claim is "God so loved the world". The Santa analogy is much more apropos.

Originally posted by josephw
Only if you can get inside my head. Otherwise you will have to take my word for it.

God doesn't exist. You can just take my word for it.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
no1 questioned the logic of the whole thread, not just the post quoted. The problem is that the wife analogy isn't a very good one. A husband doesn't purport to claim that his wife will love everyone the same way she loves him [unless he's a swinger or something]. The usual christian claim is "God so loved [b]the world". The Santa analogy is much more apropos.[/b]

Well I don't purport to love god the same way a kid loves santa or visa versa! The whole santa comparison is invalid and imo trite.

The husband and wife premis talks to the fact that love is impossible to prove outside of the experience of the beloved, as it is experiencial in nature not formulaic. It's a good example that not everythng in life can be proved using algebra.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
For one, I never said that I posted the remedies. I stated that the remedies should be evident.

You responded to the following statement:
"1) Many Christians are taught and believe that it is impossible for them to stop committing sin. This goes against what Jesus taugt in John 8:32-36."

Where does it state or even imply that "the path to righ ...[text shortened]... o be so intent on accusing and attacking, that you have failed to properly read my post.[/b]

You are making a valiant effort to come off like Mr. Innocent under persecution. However my replies are not based soley on statements you have made in this thread but on statements you have made elsewhere.

I don't see that you have changed your view very much. You still have those same opinions - Rejecting Acts, only believeing Jesus spoke what reinforces your pre-conceived dogma.

Paul puts no words into the mouth of Christ. Only in the book of Acts does he say that Jesus said "It is more blessed to give than to receive" the exact quotation of which may not be found in the four Gospels. One very close to it can be found.

You are really ignorant to accuse Paul of putting words into the mouth of Jesus. The Holy Spirit inspired the apostles in thier teaching. And that was foreordained by Christ Himself.

That is why they were called apostles. They were SENT by Christ.

Christ prayed for those who believe on Him "through THEIR word" (John 17:20).


Peter spoke of those who preached the gospel to the disciples " ... which have now been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven." (1 Pet. 1:12)

Peter recommended Paul and refered to his letters as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15,16)

I wouldn't follow you in your rejection of a good portion of the New Testament for anything.

Originally posted by LemonJello
God doesn't exist. You can just take my word for it.

I didn't say that you would have to take my word for it that God exists.

I said you would have to take my word for it that I know God exists based on my own personal experience.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You are accepted by God once you are born of the spirit, i.e. truth, love, compassion, justice, etc. A symptom of this would be that you would no longer continue to sin. You would be one with God, so sinning would never be an option, just as I assume rape is never an option for you.

Perhaps you've never "heard of anyone that ever has", because so many ...[text shortened]... of your limited experience?
"The truth will set you free."
"Seek and you shall find."

"You are accepted by God once you are born of the spirit,..."

How does one become "born of the spirit"?

Originally posted by josephw
I didn't say that you would have to take my word for it that God exists.

I said you would have to take my word for it that I know God exists based on my own personal experience.

So? Your knowing that God exists through experience (or any means for that matter) entails that God exists. Therefore, if you just take me at my word, your claim cannot be correct (I'm just trying to maintain a symmetry of sorts here).

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you know no such thing (as one cannot know a false proposition).

Originally posted by divegeester
Well I don't purport to love god the same way a kid loves santa or visa versa! The whole santa comparison is invalid and imo trite.

The husband and wife premis talks to the fact that love is impossible to prove outside of the experience of the beloved, as it is experiencial in nature not formulaic. It's a good example that not everythng in life can be proved using algebra.

Yes, you keep saying that it's trite, but I have yet to see you give a good reason why.

And why can't a 3rd party tell that a husband loves his wife? In some cases, it's obvious. You don't need to experience that love personally to know it's there. "Impossible" is certainly too strong a word.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"You are accepted by God once you are born of the spirit,..."

How does one become "born of the spirit"?[/b]

Earlier you said the following:
"It appears that the 'Christianity', as it is practiced today, is anemic. But why? I don't think we'll agree, but it might be worth the discussion. "

I've stated why some underlying reasons that Christians on the whole are no more moral than the general public. As of yet, you've yet to put forth any reasons that you may have. For that matter, you have yet to discuss the reasons that I have put forth either. Instead you've only been asking questions about my interpretation of the teachings of Jesus. If you don't want to discuss it, why did you propose it in the first place?

Originally posted by jaywill
You are making a valiant effort to come off like Mr. Innocent under persecution. However my replies are not based soley on statements you have made in this thread but on statements you have made elsewhere.

I don't see that you have changed your view very much. You still have those same opinions - Rejecting Acts, only believeing Jesus spoke what reinforce uldn't follow you in your rejection of a good portion of the New Testament for anything.

You really seem to be having trouble keeping track of my posts. What you've posted here has nothing to do with the post that you responded to.

I was trying to have a discussion with josephw when you horned your way in making unfounded accusations and attacks. You still haven't substantiated your claims nor will you be able to since they are false.

It seems you only responding my posts to make unfounded accusations and attacks. Please stop doing so, lest you become yet another stalker. If you ever wonder why so many have such a low opinion of "Christians", you need only look in the mirror. It's actions such as yours that exemplify what josephw and I were discussing.

Originally posted by vkgkakvt

Here you're wrong. There are hundreds of people who claim to have personal experiences in which they feel the presence of God.

so by your reckoning because hundreds of people have claimed to have seen and been abducted by UFOs and probed by aliens that this is true?

hundreds of people can claim a lot of things it doesn't make them true.....hundreds of people can have video footage of things it doesn't make them true.

how many kids throughout the world do you think claimed to have seen or heard santa in the past couple of weeks? does this make santa real or does children's opinions not count as highly as that of the adults who are feeding their kids with lies?

your theory is flawed in so many ways it's laughable.

God doesn't control us! We're not robots or pieces on a gigantic chess board that is the Earth. We are free to make our own decisions however bad those may be.

we are all individuals, no. not all of us but at birth we are all free.

Originally posted by josephw

Have you ever considered that it is because of the lack of God in peoples lives that causes them to commit evil?

some of these crimes i speck of were committed by 'people of god' so no the 'lack of god' in someones life has nothing to do with how they act. i have a 'lack of god' in my life but that doesn't mean i'm going send an army of trained idiots into a county to kill.

you can't categorize people into 'god' and 'lack of god' people and then debate reasons for 'committing evil' the fact is that people 'of god' are no less or more more likely to commit crimes. how many times have you heard of people claiming 'god told me to do it' in court or where ever after committing a crime or wrong doing? which is a complete cop out, you do what you do and you alone should take the consequences of it whatever you believe to be true.

Blaiming God for the crimes of certian individuals, and then denying His existence is irrational.

The crimes you speak of, and all other acts of evil committed by man, are the responsibilty of those who committed them. Blaiming God or anyone else is a denile of reality.

i'm not blaming god for anything because he doesn't exist imo.

Originally posted by josephw
Have you ever considered that it is because of the lack of God in peoples lives that causes them to commit evil?

Blaiming God for the crimes of certian individuals, and then denying His existence is irrational.

The crimes you speak of, and all other acts of evil committed by man, are the responsibilty of those who committed them. Blaiming God or anyone else is a denile of reality.

…Have you ever considered that it is because of the lack of God in peoples lives that causes them to commit evil? ..…

You imply that somehow a person’s disbelief that there is a god would cause him to be evil which is nonsense. If that were true then very young children and even babies are evil!!! (because they haven’t yet been brainwashed by all that religious claptrap and understand nothing of it)

What causes people to deliberately commit atrocities (commit evil) is always emotions like anger, hate, jealousy, greed, sadism, lust for power etc. Since both atheists and theists can have these emotions and act upon then to commit evil, how strongly a person believes there is a god is irrelevant to the issue.