1. Standard memberDasa
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    24 Feb '11 05:58
    I would like a public discussion to take place in this forum between myself and FMF

    The topics of discussion all have to do with spirituality/religion/life/death/God/existence/truthfulness/untruthfulness/truth/falsity and so on.

    If FMF would like to take me up on this, we may have a very interesting month of discussions.
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Feb '11 06:111 edit
    Originally posted by Dasa
    I would like a public discussion to take place in this forum between myself and FMF

    The topics of discussion all have to do with spirituality/religion/life/death/God/existence/truthfulness/untruthfulness/truth/falsity and so on.

    If FMF would like to take me up on this, we may have a very interesting month of discussions.
    How would this be any different from the "discussions" that have taken place across a dozen or so threads over the last several weeks?

    Seeing as I have no wish to modify or replace your belief system, and seeing as my own spiritual beliefs have been made quite clear - and you've already deemed them to be "worthless" and "dishonest" - words I have never used to describe your creed - I am happy to just continue engaging you and other posters on a thread by thread and topic by topic basis.

    I have no dogma to "present" and no 'instructions from God' to share or to try to impose on others. My own brand of theism doesn't involve the vanity involved in making assertions about my belief system as if everybody either "agrees" or is lying. That has been your forum 'persona', not mine.

    Starting a thread called "Public Challenge to FMF" is, I think, yet another exercise in vanity on your part. I have written hundreds of posts, all of them in "public", of my own volition - with or without any "challenge". So I will continue posting in the normal way. I find your complete and utter inability to process any kind of dissent or diversity absolutely extraordinary. This thread title is just another example.
  3. Standard memberDasa
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    24 Feb '11 06:33
    Originally posted by FMF
    How would this be any different from the "discussions" that have taken place across a dozen or so threads over the last several weeks?

    Seeing as I have no wish to modify or replace your belief system, and seeing as my own spiritual beliefs have been made quite clear - and you've already deemed them to be "worthless" and "dishonest" - words I have never used ...[text shortened]... diversity absolutely extraordinary. This thread title is just another example.
    You are sensationalizing the words dishonest and worthless like you do in most of your posts in an attempt to twist the meaning and present them out of context.

    Politicians do this all the time, and are constantly taking statements from the other out of context, and then presenting them differently.

    You do this for the impact value .....and if you actually read my post without twisting anything, then my presentations are spot on and true......and not the slightest bit insulting.

    So this is the spirituality forum and your not up to a public discussion.

    Ok what about a question...

    You say you are a theist and also reject reincarnation saying at death we cease to exist.

    So if the soul does not survive the body....then how is the body exhibiting life and consciousness , free will, cognition, intelligence, meaning, purpose.

    Are you siding with the atheistic scientist who says that life is just chemicals and their reactions.

    Have you ever seen a consciousness molecule?

    Have you ever seen a free will molecule?

    Have you ever seen a intelligence molecule.

    If you are a theist, .....then if there is no spiritual soul within the body to survive its death, then what is God., is not God spiritual.
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Feb '11 06:38
    Originally posted by Dasa
    So this is the spirituality forum and your not up to a public discussion.
    See [b]Thread 135840.
  5. Lowlands paradise
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    24 Feb '11 07:45
    Originally posted by Dasa
    You are sensationalizing the words dishonest and worthless like you do in most of your posts in an attempt to twist the meaning and present them out of context.

    Politicians do this all the time, and are constantly taking statements from the other out of context, and then presenting them differently.

    You do this for the impact value .....and if you actuall ...[text shortened]... no spiritual soul within the body to survive its death, then what is God., is not God spiritual.
    Have you ever seen a consciousness molecule? Have you ever seen a free will molecule? Have you ever seen a intelligence molecule.

    "To get really high is to forget yourself and to forget
    yourself is to see everything else; and to see
    everything else is to become an understanding
    molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the
    universe."
    -Jerry Garcia
  6. Standard memberDasa
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    24 Feb '11 08:31
    Originally posted by FMF
    See [b]Thread 135840.
    That thread says nothing at all.


    So you reject reincarnation but say there is a God and nothing survives the soul........so what is God/

    Is not God spiritual and living?

    Are we not living.

    Are we not spiritual as well? Being spiritual do we not survive the death of the body.

    Why do you contradict yourself.
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Feb '11 08:541 edit
    Originally posted by Dasa
    That thread says nothing at all.
    Your opinion is noted. And I believe that you are being sincere and honest with me.
  8. Standard memberDasa
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    24 Feb '11 09:31
    Originally posted by FMF
    Your opinion is noted. And I believe that you are being sincere and honest with me.
    By not responding to my spiritual questions...you are once again playing mind games.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Feb '11 09:53
    Originally posted by Dasa
    By not responding to my spiritual questions...you are once again playing mind games.
    You mean your mind feels 'played with' because I don't agree with you?

    You are the one that insists that there is a link between the existence of 'God' and the existence of an 'afterlife'. I do not.

    You ask me "Why do you contradict yourself?" Well I don't contradict myself. I merely contradict you when you assert that your belief system is also my belief system, and that if I "deny [this] undeniable [thing]" then I am a liar or "dishonest".
  10. Standard memberDasa
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    24 Feb '11 10:30
    Originally posted by FMF
    You mean your mind feels 'played with' because I don't agree with you?

    You are the one that insists that there is a link between the existence of 'God' and the existence of an 'afterlife'. I do not.

    You ask me "Why do you contradict yourself?" Well I don't contradict myself. I merely contradict you when you assert that your belief system is also my belie ...[text shortened]... m, and that if I "deny [this] undeniable [thing]" then I am a liar or "dishonest".
    Your playing word games again and this is being untruthful.

    It is you who reject the soul and at the same time claim to accept God....is not God Spiritual?....then what is spiritual?

    You must present something or else you are here to play mind games which is being untruthful and a manipulation....dont do that.

    Every post you submit is manipulating in one way or another.......why do that..
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Feb '11 11:021 edit
    Originally posted by Dasa
    It is you who reject the soul and at the same time claim to accept God....is not God Spiritual?....then what is spiritual?
    Please. Please. Stop the constant insults. Who do you think you are? I mean, really. What makes you think for one single moment that you need to insult people day after day after day? Please stop it.

    I have no idea what you mean by "the soul". I believe in the human spirit and I believe that each person's individuality and consciousness is their "spirit". I believe that no two of these "spirits" can be identical. Our "uniqueness" therefore is the foundation of "spirituality".

    Thus "spirituality" concerns this human essence, our interrelationships, and our coming to terms with the human condition through awareness and knowledge of this world. I have come to the conclusion that, for me, the existence of God - remember, I am a theist - is not especially relevant to all this.

    Spirituality: "...the state or quality of being dedicated to God, religion, or spiritual things or values, especially as contrasted with material or temporal ones". My spirituality - not being based on speculation about God, and not being contorted into religion or religiosity - applies itself to the "...or spiritual things or values, especially as contrasted with material or temporal ones" part of the definition. The human essence or "spirit" is, to me, clearly something different or additional to the "material or temporal".

    The question "is not God Spiritual?" is a simply non-sequitur to me.

    I don't believe in the 'afterlife'. I don't believe in 'reincarnation'. They are both products of speculation and superstition without credible evidence to back them up. Having said that, I do not seek to disinvest you of your beliefs.

    To me 'God' has nothing to do with the 'afterlife'. I have not received any "instructions" from God. I don't believe you have either. According to my spiritual mindmap, conjecture and aspiration about the 'afterlife' is not necessary and has no impact on my life or the way I live my life.

    Life is too precious, wonderful and too much of a thoroughly spiritual experience for me to waste my time telling myself there must be something more than this.

    Basically I do not subscribe to the brands of "spirituality" that are constructed on (a) there must be something more than this and (b) God has given us "instructions" and we know what they are and (c) if we do this, that and the other, then we will live forever.

    I personally believe that "spiritual" dogmas, creeds and 'religious rules' rooted in these three things are on a hiding to nothing. However, you are perfectly entitled to believe what you believe. I am not a religionist. I don't seek to change your mind.
  12. Standard memberDasa
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    24 Feb '11 18:47
    Originally posted by FMF
    Please. Please. Stop the constant insults. Who do you think you are? I mean, really. What makes you think for one single moment that you need to insult people day after day after day? Please stop it.

    I have no idea what you mean by "the soul". I believe in the human spirit and I believe that each person's individuality and consciousness is their "spirit". I b ...[text shortened]... a religionist. I don't seek to change your mind.
    Then if you know nothing about the soul....how can you reject authority.

    Vedanta is the authority of the soul, so why would you reject its knowledge whimsically

    Being a theist is relevant to everything we are discussing.

    You said spirituality is coming to terms with the human condition through awareness and knowledge......so the Vedanta is giving knowledge, so why do you whimsically reject.

    You said that your spirituality is not based on speculation, BUT your spirituality IS base on speculation...... because your self styled spirituality has allowed you to kill animals, which is not acceptable.

    FMF you have said many contradictory things and have revealed your confusion about spirituality, and this happens when you invent you spirituality as you go along.
  13. SubscriberProper Knob
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    24 Feb '11 19:13
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Then if you know nothing about the soul....how can you reject authority.

    Vedanta is the authority of the soul, so why would you reject its knowledge whimsically

    Being a theist is relevant to everything we are discussing.

    You said spirituality is coming to terms with the human condition through awareness and knowledge......so the Vedanta is giving knowl ...[text shortened]... confusion about spirituality, and this happens when you invent you spirituality as you go along.
    I find it hilarious that you, the person who started a thread entitled -

    Vedic knowledge at the foundation of modern science.

    who, less than two pages later in the same thread asked the question -

    Where have I said the Vedic knowledge is the foundation of modern science.

    should be labelling people 'confused'.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    25 Feb '11 00:35
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Then if you know nothing about the soul....how can you reject authority.
    I understand that you do not share my belief system. I understand that you need there to be an "authority". Fortunately for both of us, I do not need to try to change your mind.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    25 Feb '11 00:37
    Originally posted by Dasa
    You said spirituality is coming to terms with the human condition through awareness and knowledge......so the Vedanta is giving knowledge, so why do you whimsically reject.
    You are misusing the word "whimsically", Dasa.
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