Originally posted by divegeester Evidently you are not correct.
Evidently you actually agree with me. Strange that you would say I am not correct.
This may not be your way of finding meaning but who is to say it is any less effective or satisfying. And the reverse is true. Who is to say that my way of finding meaning is any less effective or satisfying. My overall point is that a creator does not instantiate a special sort of meaning that trumps all others. Some would argue that knowing why we are here or why we were created somehow gives special meaning to our lives, but I would say no, even if I was created for a specific purpose, that does not automatically give my life meaning, nor does it belittle any other meaning I choose to assign to my life.
Similarly on the question of morality, God's morality is no more universal or non-arbitrary than my morality.
Originally posted by KellyJay You don't think that everyone shares the same right and wrong standards, that on some
level we all know some things are good and others bad?
I was talking more in a 'macro' 'micro' context. I may not believe my life has any universal meaning (on the world stage) but believe it does have meaning in regards to my family and immediate environment. (My local theatre). - I do believe that most people have a conscience that differentiates between right and wrong (a moral compass if you like) but do not believe we share the same moral compass as a species, or that this moral compass comes from an external source. (But rather is a result of life experiences and influences).
Yesterday i resolved a benefit issue for a client who was practically suicidal with anxiety. I have never been thanked so much in a 10 minute period. - I find meaning for my existence in such a thing; perhaps not a grand 'universal meaning' or purpose, but meaning all the same.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Okay, so in a previous thread it was commonly agreed that God was holding us back as a species. (Joke).
But with God off the table, does life and existence really have no meaning, no purpose? - I ask this question as a few times in these forums theists have implied or stated directly that without God there can be no meaning. This of course would m ...[text shortened]... need to have a purpose? Is it just our fear or mortality that makes us seek out meaning in life?
I have liked the analogy of Ziggy the red Squirrel.
Ziggy is born, is nurtured by his parents, grows up, learns to survive and eventually finds a mate. He gathers nuts for his immediate needs and buries some for winter time. He has a family and watches them grow up. He never thinks about God and has no need of him. This is Ziggys life and thus it appears to me that humans who act in a similar manner have no more sense of purpose than Ziggy the red squirrel.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I have liked the analogy of Ziggy the red Squirrel.
Ziggy is born, is nurtured by his parents, grows up, learns to survive and eventually finds a mate. He gathers nuts for his immediate needs and buries some for winter time. He has a family and watches them grow up. He never thinks about God and has no need of him. This is Ziggys life and thus ...[text shortened]... at humans who act in a similar manner have no more sense of purpose than Ziggy the red squirrel.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Always with the squirrels.
😉
Squirrel is good analogy, he cares, gathers, tries to stay away from bad ol puddy cats, has a family, watches them grow and puts a few nuts away for winter time.
Originally posted by twhitehead Evidently you actually agree with me. Strange that you would say I am not correct.
[b]This may not be your way of finding meaning but who is to say it is any less effective or satisfying. And the reverse is true. Who is to say that my way of finding meaning is any less effective or satisfying. My overall point is that a creator does not instantiat ...[text shortened]... the question of morality, God's morality is no more universal or non-arbitrary than my morality.[/b]
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I have liked the analogy of Ziggy the red Squirrel.
Ziggy is born, is nurtured by his parents, grows up, learns to survive and eventually finds a mate. He gathers nuts for his immediate needs and buries some for winter time. He has a family and watches them grow up. He never thinks about God and has no need of him. This is Ziggys life and thus ...[text shortened]... at humans who act in a similar manner have no more sense of purpose than Ziggy the red squirrel.
And you figure there is something vile about a squirrel living out its life with no need to refer to a god every minute of every day. So you have the same thing, but a human, say living out in the wilds of Alaska, helping his neighbors, saving people from drowning, sending his kids to school, but living the wild life in the Alaska forests, hunting what he needs, storing those things for winter, living his life. So I assume you feel that would be a vile life to not be sucking up to a god 24/7, a god you cannot even prove to be real?
Originally posted by sonship That's not much of an argument. So let's have a real explanation.
SHUT UP
Don't say I did not warn you!
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16 Sep '15 21:05
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Okay, i will re-visit it.
Purpose without God
Before God, it was eat, drink and be merry!
Then when I got older and got serious, it seemed like 70 years(if one is lucky) and a hole in the ground.
All was vanity! Life made no sense.
Originally posted by sonhouse And you figure there is something vile about a squirrel living out its life with no need to refer to a god every minute of every day. So you have the same thing, but a human, say living out in the wilds of Alaska, helping his neighbors, saving people from drowning, sending his kids to school, but living the wild life in the Alaska forests, hunting what he n ...[text shortened]... would be a vile life to not be sucking up to a god 24/7, a god you cannot even prove to be real?
No i have made no moral judgment at all about squirrels, nor about people living in Alaska, nor about people who help their neighbors, nor about people saving others from downing, nor about sending their kids to school, or about people who want to hunt and live in the forest. I am not a very judgmental person, sorry you mus have mistaken me for someone else.
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16 Sep '15 21:30
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I have liked the analogy of Ziggy the red Squirrel.
Ziggy is born, is nurtured by his parents, grows up, learns to survive and eventually finds a mate. He gathers nuts for his immediate needs and buries some for winter time. He has a family and watches them grow up. He never thinks about God and has no need of him. This is Ziggys life and thus ...[text shortened]... at humans who act in a similar manner have no more sense of purpose than Ziggy the red squirrel.
Except I think Ziggy did what he was designed to do. Otherwise, good analogy..😉
Originally posted by checkbaiter Purpose without God
Before God, it was eat, drink and be merry!
Then when I got older and got serious, it seemed like 70 years(if one is lucky) and a hole in the ground.
All was vanity! Life made no sense.
You declaring yourself to be immortal ~ because, to you, your "life made no sense" ~ and because you say a supernatural being has communicated with you?
Now that is what I'd call "vanity".
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16 Sep '15 23:36
Originally posted by FMF You declaring yourself to be immortal ~ because, to you, your "life made no sense" ~ and because you say a supernatural being has communicated with you?
Now [b]that is what I'd call "vanity".[/b]
You must really loathe God...not sure why though...
Originally posted by checkbaiter You must really loathe God...not sure why though...
I don't get it either checkbaiter. FMF has claimed to once be a Christian. And, I have tried to discuss that more with him.....to no avail. Something really bad must have happened?
Purpose without God
16 Sep '15 10:10
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