1. Standard memberAgerg
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    31 May '11 07:393 edits
    In the `debate' between josephw and I in the *Capabilities* thread you dropped by with the following little nugget of scripture:

    "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and
    murders and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters
    and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with
    fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
    (Revelation 21:8 NASB)


    Now you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible and so presumably you believe sorcerers actually existed. Please tell me more! What sort of spells did they cast? Did they wear robes adorned with stars and pointy hats? Or are they perhaps incapable of wearing certain types of armour? Do they still exist? ;]
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    31 May '11 08:041 edit
    Originally posted by Agerg
    In the `debate' between josephw and I in the *Capabilities* thread you dropped by with the following little nugget of scripture:

    "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and
    murders and immoral persons and [b]sorcerers
    and idolaters
    and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with
    fire and brimstone, which is the second de ts? Or are they perhaps incapable of wearing certain types of armour? Do they still exist? ;]
    wut? Surely you have heard of the occult and those who practice it? are they real? Is the Pope a Catholic?
  3. Standard memberAgerg
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    31 May '11 08:103 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    wut? Surely you have heard of the occult and those who practice it? are they real? Is the Pope a Catholic?
    I see...so they cast spells like *raise dead* then? How many hit points do they get when they level up? Reveal Hidden Content
    btw, "sorcerers" are more like wizards (who cast fireballs and chit) than crazy people with no magic powers - and lemme preempt the following route: magicians use sleight of hand and simple misdirection, wizards =/= magicians on the other hand are actually supposed to employ proper magic
    ;]
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    31 May '11 08:402 edits
    Originally posted by Agerg
    I see...so they cast spells like *raise dead* then? How many hit points do they get when they level up? [hidden]btw, "sorcerers" are more like wizards (who cast fireballs and chit) than crazy people with no magic powers - and lemme preempt the following route: magicians use sleight of hand and simple misdirection, wizards =/= magicians on the other hand are actually supposed to employ proper magic [/hidden] ;]
    i was once walking in the Gleniffer Braes in Paisley, just outside of my own city, I chanced upon a derelict house of considerable size, once owned by a Scottish singer by the name of Calumn Kennedy, as i perused the broken records that scattered the grounds in a room i noticed a large pentangle on the floor of the room, which had obviously been used by a local coven of witches for what purpose, i cannot say. Being zealous for the public ministry at the time, i had in my pocket a Bible tract which i immediately placed in the centre of the large pentangle and weighed it down with a stone! sanctifying the place at once. The moral of course is dear Agers, adherents of the occult are not as uncommon as you would imagine and include many lettered and professional people. Of course this is not merely illusion as in the case of a magician, but an appeal to invoke the spirit realm.
  5. Standard memberAgerg
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    31 May '11 08:512 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i was once walking in the Gleniffer Braes in Paisley, just outside of my own city, I chanced upon a derelict house of considerable size, once owned by a Scottish singer by the name of Calumn Kennedy, as i perused the broken records that scattered the grounds in a room i noticed a large pentangle on the floor of the room, which had obviously been used ...[text shortened]... s is not merely illusion as in the case of a magician, but an appeal to invoke the spirit realm.
    But do you genuinely believe they actually succeed in channeling forces from the so called spirit realm!??? 😕

    If not, they hardly qualify for the title "sorcerers" when more accurate, even with biblical terminology, would be cultists, demon worshippers,Reveal Hidden Content
    no need to invoke magic with this one
    and so on...
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    31 May '11 08:55
    Originally posted by Agerg
    But do you think they actually succeed in channeling forces from the so called spirit realm!??? 😕
    who can say? they may have been nature worshippers, but the fact of the mater is, they were involved in some ritualistic attempt to invoke something.
  7. Standard memberAgerg
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    31 May '11 08:573 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    who can say? they may have been nature worshippers, but the fact of the mater is, they were involved in some ritualistic attempt to invoke something.
    See my edit, bear in mind that in ancient times, "sorcerers" would have been used to identify people who do actually harness magic - and then noting that the Bible is allegedly the word of God (who supposedly cannot lieReveal Hidden Content
    a thoroughly ridiculous constraint btw
    ) then we must conclude either it either introduced some fruit-loop redundancy into the Bible or these people with magic powers actually existed!
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    31 May '11 09:141 edit
    Originally posted by Agerg
    See my edit, bear in mind that in ancient times, "sorcerers" would have been used to identify people who do actually harness magic - and then noting that the Bible is allegedly the word of God (who supposedly cannot lie[hidden]a thoroughly ridiculous constraint btw[/hidden]) then we must conclude either it either introduced some fruit-loop redundancy into the Bible or these people with magic powers actually existed!
    you are trying to draw distinctions when clearly, each and every one has a common denominator, an appeal is made through ritualistic practice for an invocation to the spirit realm. Whether its looking at a horoscope in a newspaper to divine your future or hiding out in derelict houses with twelve other members and pouring out blood libations, its essentially the same thing, they only differ in degree and in ones perceptions of their sinister nature.
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    31 May '11 09:24
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ... sanctifying the place at once.
    Is that too some sort of magic? Is there some special properties in space that mark some matter 'sanctified' and others some how 'evil' or otherwise undesirable?
  10. Standard memberAgerg
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    31 May '11 09:324 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    you are trying to draw distinctions when clearly, each and every one has a common denominator, an appeal is made through ritualistic practice for an invocation to the spirit realm. Whether its looking at a horoscope in a newspaper to divine your future or hiding out in derelict houses with twelve other members and pouring out blood libations, its es ...[text shortened]... lly the same thing, they only differ in degree and in ones perceptions of their sinister nature.
    Nah...I'm not buying that one Robbie! The common denominator between Spiderman and people who dress up like Spiderman is being human and wearing red and blue Spiderman costumes. If someone was actually referred to as "Spiderman" on the other hand then we ought to conclude it is believed they can spin webs with their fingers and scale tall buildings without mechanical assistance!
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    31 May '11 09:36
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Is that too some sort of magic? Is there some special properties in space that mark some matter 'sanctified' and others some how 'evil' or otherwise undesirable?
    naturally, i have delivered Biblical truth, light, to shatter delusion, ambiguity and contriving error! to dispel the mist of uncertainty and vain appeals to invoke spiritual entities. Look at yourself, how many trivial issues you have with this thing and that thing trying to reduce all to that which is merely material, as if its just 'matter', all our issues are resolved, thus our vision is clear, our pathway bright and our purpose manifest, we are as a consequence, more fulfilled and happy individuals for it.
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    31 May '11 09:38
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Nah...I'm not buying that one Robbie! The common denominator between Spiderman and people who dress up like Spiderman is being men and wearing red and blue Spiderman costumes. If someone was actually referred to as "Spiderman" on the other hand then we ought to conclude it is believed they can spin webs with their fingers and scale tall buildings without mechanical assistance!
    I think you my be confusing spider-man with batman, for as far as i am aware batman also has a costume but has no superpowers, relying solely on technology for his crime busting enterprise. Clearly not the case with spider-man!
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    31 May '11 09:40
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    naturally, i have delivered Biblical truth, light, to shatter delusion, ambiguity and contriving error! to dispel the mist of uncertainty and vain appeals to invoke spiritual entities.
    So the piece of ground learnt something? Or were you relying on the people coming back? Why did you phrase it as "sanctifying the place" as if it was the ground not the people that was affected? What makes you think the people in question learnt something from you?
  14. Standard memberAgerg
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    31 May '11 09:44
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I think you my be confusing spider-man with batman, for as far as i am aware batman also has a costume but has no superpowers, relying solely on technology for his crime busting enterprise. Clearly not the case with spider-man!
    You've dodged the point, people who dress up like super heroes aren't referred to as actual super heroes unless it is believed they have super hero powers. Similarly, especially in Biblical times, people wouldn't have been referred to as sorcerers unless it was believed they could tap into the supernatural; and then, again! since we are supposed to believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God then either it introduced the idea these folk go to hell purely for the lol-factor or they actually existed!
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    31 May '11 09:441 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    So the piece of ground learnt something? Or were you relying on the people coming back? Why did you phrase it as "sanctifying the place" as if it was the ground not the people that was affected? What makes you think the people in question learnt something from you?
    sigh, it was a joke my friend, i was joking when i stated that sanctification took place. Whether someone came back and read it, i do not know, you see, when one meets a pentangle in an isolated old derelict building in the countryside, one does not hang around for too long, lest one is discovered!
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