Question

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I am not immortal. Technically, I am not "saved"[b] yet. That is future.
God has made a promise and I trust he will fulfill it.[/b]

I am not "saved" yet. That is future.
God has made a promise and I trust he will fulfill it.

Are all the usages of the word "saved" in the past tense, in the New Testament invalid ?

Before you answer me, if you choose to, let me reiterate as clearly as I can so as not to be misunderstood.

I am not saying there are no usages of "saved" in a future sense, as if something to look forward to. I am saying are all the usages of "saved" in the past tense not true in the New Testament?

IE.

"For by grace you have been SAVED ... " (Eph. 2:8a)

Not trustworthy ?

IE.

" ... according to His mercy He SAVED us ..." (TItus 3:5a)

Not trustworthy ?

IE.

" Who SAVED us and called us with a holy calling ..." (1 Tim. 1:9a)

Invalid ?

IE.

" For we were SAVED in hope ..." (Rom. 8:24)

To be trusted or invalid ?

Originally posted by whodey
Those of faith, do you doubt your salvation?

Atheists, do you ever doubt your eternal death?

Agnostics, grow a pair and admit your really an atheist.

I'll say I have faith and hope, that doesn't mean I never have moments of doubts. I'll also
say that God strengthens me even through those struggles since it is during times of
struggle that doubts come. If there was never a doubt it would not be faith in my opinion,
others may disagree,

I've been a Christian for +35 years now and through pain and suffering, deaths of love
ones, joy, grief, victory, and failures all the good and bad Jesus is my constant. God the
sure foundation through it all He keeps me even when life is a roller coaster ride going up
and down.

Originally posted by sonship

I am not "saved" yet. That is future.
God has made a promise and I trust he will fulfill it.

Are all the usages of the word [b]"saved" in the past tense, in the New Testament invalid ?

Before you answer me, if you choose to, let me reiterate as clearly as I can so as not to be misunderstood.

I am not saying there ...[text shortened]... te] " For we were SAVED in hope ..." (Rom. 8:24) [/quote]

To be trusted or invalid ?[/b]

Absolutely to be trusted. But we are not in Paradise yet are we ?
Christ has not returned has he? What we have is a promise and a guarantee, until the redemption of the purchased possession.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Absolutely to be trusted. But we are not in Paradise yet are we ?
Christ has not returned has he? What we have is a promise and a guarantee, [b] until the redemption of the purchased possession.[/b]

I am happy that you say these passages are absolutely to be trusted. For if we don't stand upon them it will be much more difficult for salvation in the future sense to be worked out.

Recall I wrote:

I am not saying there are no usages of "saved" in a future sense, as if something to look forward to.

Originally posted by sonship
I am happy that you say these passages are absolutely to be trusted. For if we don't stand upon them it will be much more difficult for salvation in the future sense to be worked out.

Recall I wrote:

I am not saying there are no usages of [b]"saved" in a future sense, as if something to look forward to.

[/b]

I believe when God uses language in the past tense, He sees it as a done deal, even though we don't see it yet.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

I believe when God uses language in the past tense, He sees it as a done deal, even though we don't see it yet.

Okay.

Then I think you should consider that God appearing as a MAN in Genesis 18 is a transcendent "done deal" concerning the incarnation.

God appeared to Abraham as a man and even had lunch with Abraham. Why can you not exercise faith that this was a "done deal" of the incarnation of God in Jesus Christ - born of a woman, future to that event ?

Originally posted by sonship

[b]I believe when God uses language in the past tense, He sees it as a done deal, even though we don't see it yet.

Okay.

Then I think you should consider that God appearing as a MAN in Genesis 18 is a transcendent "done deal" concerning the incarnation.

God appeared to Abraham as a man and even had lunch with Ab ...[text shortened]... "done deal" of the incarnation of God in Jesus Christ - born of a woman, future to that event ?[/b]

Wow, you don't give up. God appeared to Abraham in a human form, but it does not mean it was Jesus.
God can appear as anyone, but it is not His true form, He is spirit.
Jesus is a man and now has a glorified body like we will.
Let's not hijack another thread please.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I suppose, but wouldn't that make God a liar? Do you doubt the sun will rise tomorrow?

Wait...wut?

How does that make God a liar?

Originally posted by whodey
Wait...wut?

How does that make God a liar?

If God let us down, then his promise is a lie.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
If God let us down, then his promise is a lie.

Did the Father let Christ down when Christ cried to be delivered from the cross is possible as he sweat great drops of blood?

Make no mistake, all believers have similar experiences. We never always get our way.

Originally posted by whodey
Did the Father let Christ down when Christ cried to be delivered from the cross is possible as he sweat great drops of blood?

Make no mistake, all believers have similar experiences. We never always get our way.

No, he did not let him down.
I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing.
Are you saying some believers will not be saved? Or God will change his mind about saving some?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, he did not let him down.
I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing.
Are you saying some believers will not be saved? Or God will change his mind about saving some?

Read the book of Job.

I am saying that at times he will feel as though he lets us down, however, in the larger scheme of things he will not. It is just a matter of being able to stand back and see the bigger picture at a future date. In the interim though, we may lose our very lives as well as suffer.

Originally posted by whodey
Read the book of Job.

I am saying that at times he will feel as though he lets us down, however, in the larger scheme of things he will not. It is just a matter of being able to stand back and see the bigger picture at a future date. In the interim though, we may lose our very lives as well as suffer.

The book of Job is a unique book about suffering. I do not believe it would have played out the same if Job had lived after the time of the book of Acts.
Job was a righteous man who was attacked by Satan. God spared his life, then restored everything he lost.
Today, you have holy spirit in you. It was not available in the time of Job.
You and I have spiritual weapons to resist the enemy. Satan fears a Christian who knows who he is in Christ.
Jesus told the 70 to heal the sick, cast out demons, etc. We have this authority in Christ.
In the time of Job it was unheard of.

Yes, at times we may "feel" like he lets us down, but he doesn't. At those times we need to encourage ourselves in the Lord, like David.
We need to pray in the spirit, etc.
There is a reason why in the Epistles we are called "more than Conquerors".

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The book of Job is a unique book about suffering. I do not believe it would have played out the same if Job had lived after the time of the book of Acts.
Job was a righteous man who was attacked by Satan. God spared his life, then restored everything he lost.
Today, you have holy spirit [b]in you. It was not available in the time of Job.
You and I ...[text shortened]... in the spirit, etc.
There is a reason why in the Epistles we are called "more than Conquerors".[/b]

But the Bible is full of stories of righteous people being martyred like Stephan, the first after Christ died himself

In fact, all of his disciples gave their lives, except one.

Originally posted by whodey
But the Bible is full of stories of righteous people being martyred like Stephan, the first after Christ died himself

In fact, all of his disciples gave their lives, except one.

Absolutely. I can only hope that I would be counted worthy of going out in that fashion.
All who live godly will suffer persecution at some point.
But have you never heard of sonship rights? We are children of God!
Yes, there is a great war being fought which we can't see, and sometimes there are casualties. None of us will live forever in the flesh.
The Apostles were on the front lines and I don't understand why they died like they did, but there had to be good reason.
Their deaths glorified God and it was their time, I just don't know.

What I am talking about is the average Christian who has power to tread on serpents, to cast out demons and pray for healing.