Quotes About The Beginning of Everything

There is something
that contains everything.
Before heaven and earth
it is.
Oh, it is still, unbodied,
all on its own, unchanging,

all-pervading,
ever-moving.
So it can act as the mother
of all things.
Not knowing its real name,
we only call it the Way. ...

—Tao Te Ching, Chapter 25, translation by Ursula Le Guin

________________________________

In the interests of naturalist Taoism, if anyone wants to think of the Way (Tao) as something like a set of initial conditions of dynamic potential (or some such), that’s fine. It certainly should not be thought of in terms of an external cause. "Heaven and earth" are manifest, phenomenal forms ("post-bang", or post-singularity, if you will).

I’ll limit my comments there, in the interests of preserving the quotation thread.

" .... science is the search for causes. Logically, there are only two types of causes: intelligent and nonintelligent (i.e., natural). The Grand Canyon had a natural cause, and Mount Rushmore had an intelligent one ... Unfortunately, on the question of first life, Darwinists like Dawkins and Crick rule out intelligent causes before they even look at the evidence. In other words, their conclussions are preloaded into their assumptions. Spontaneous generation by natural laws must be the cause of life because they consider no other options."

[Norm Giesler, Frank Turek, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Athiest, Crossway Books, pg. 120]

Originally posted by jaywill
" .... science is the search for causes. Logically, there are only two types of causes: intelligent and nonintelligent (i.e., natural). The Grand Canyon had a natural cause, and Mount Rushmore had an intelligent one ... Unfortunately, on the question of first life, Darwinists like Dawkins and Crick rule out intelligent causes before they even look at the evi ...[text shortened]... ler, Frank Turek, [b]I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Athiest, Crossway Books, pg. 120][/b]

If they refuse to accept or acknowledge they feel don't have to answer
questions where their beliefs are conflicted, they just pass them off
with one excuse or another.
Kelly

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…After talking to you guys about this for a little while you really do jump through some major hoops in AVOIDING a cause outside of the universe itself.
. … (my emphasis)

How can I be “AVOIDING” something that I don’t believe exists?[/b]

By refusing to look at things that only fit if you take that into account.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
By refusing to look at things that only fit if you take that into account.
Kelly

By “THAT” you mean the “outside of the universe” that you suppose exists despite the total absence of any credible evidence that it exists -so, exactly what “things” do not “fit” if there is no “outside of the universe” -in your opinion?

Originally posted by vistesd
There is something
that contains everything.
Before heaven and earth
it is.
Oh, it is still, unbodied,
all on its own, unchanging,

all-pervading,
ever-moving.
So it can act as the mother
of all things.
Not knowing its real name,
we only call it the Way. ...

—Tao Te Ching, Chapter 25, translation by Ursula Le Guin

__________________ ...[text shortened]... will).

I’ll limit my comments there, in the interests of preserving the quotation thread.

Thank you. Vistesd.

Not too many are picking up on the idea of mainly letting the quotes speak for themselves.