1. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    25 Oct '08 17:312 edits
    I'm sick of going in a trigonalmetric argument with religious people. Are there any religious people out
    there who could possibly even entertain athiesm? People that could even convert me? And I'm borderline crazy.
  2. Donationkirksey957
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    25 Oct '08 18:21
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    I'm sick of going in a trigonalmetric argument with religious people. Are there any religious people out
    there who could possibly even entertain athiesm? People that could even convert me? And I'm borderline crazy.
    I entertain a dialogue with atheism in my head most days. Why do you need converting?
  3. Subscriberjb70online
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    25 Oct '08 20:57
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    I'm sick of going in a trigonalmetric argument with religious people. Are there any religious people out
    there who could possibly even entertain athiesm? People that could even convert me? And I'm borderline crazy.
    Unless you walk out into the unknown, the odds of making a profound difference in your life are pretty low. -- Tom Peters.

    I don't see my self as religious,but I do believe.
    Life is a journey of spiritual growth.Growth is all I look for on a daily basis.Growth is the equaliser for us all.It matters not where we are individually spiritually we can all grow on a daily basis.
  4. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    25 Oct '08 22:12
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    I entertain a dialogue with atheism in my head most days. Why do you need converting?
    I expect that I need to be saved or at least rebooted once in a while.

    My first question then would be this.

    If some or many of the churches teachings are wrong, could it be then said
    that the church detracts more from spiritual development than it gives?
  5. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    25 Oct '08 22:141 edit
    Originally posted by jb70
    Unless you walk out into the unknown, the odds of making a profound difference in your life are pretty low. -- Tom Peters.

    I don't see my self as religious,but I do believe.
    Life is a journey of spiritual growth.Growth is all I look for on a daily basis.Growth is the equaliser for us all.It matters not where we are individually spiritually we can all grow on a daily basis.
    Some nice words but let me ask you this. How can we walk into the unknown when
    we are already told what to look for?
  6. Standard memberbill718
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    27 Oct '08 12:411 edit
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    I'm sick of going in a trigonalmetric argument with religious people. Are there any religious people out
    there who could possibly even entertain athiesm? People that could even convert me? And I'm borderline crazy.
    I'm a Christian and I could "entertain aithesism" I just don't happen to agree with it. I don't think your boarderline crazy, you may have some "issues" to work through though. As far as converting you...
    that's your choice. There is a big difference between wanting to do something, and having to do something. I think you'll figure it out.
    😏
  7. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    27 Oct '08 13:043 edits
    Originally posted by bill718
    I'm a Christian and I could "entertain aithesism" I just don't happen to agree with it. I don't think your boarderline crazy, you may have some "issues" to work through though. As far as converting you...
    that's your choice. There is a big difference between wanting to do something, and having to do something. I think you'll figure it out.
    😏
    Which is stronger, your faith that there is a god or your faith that your religion is true and correct?

    Do you believe more in faith than you do your own judgement?
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    27 Oct '08 13:49
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    Which is stronger, your faith that there is a god or your faith that your religion is true and correct?

    Do you believe more in faith than you do your own judgement?
    someone said "I am not insane, i talk to god every day. If god talks back i will get worried."

    You can believe. It doesn't make you insane. Insane is when you apply your faith to real world situations. If you bet all your money on a horse thinking God will give that horse wings you are insane because
    1. God might not exist.
    2. You might have prayed to the wrong god, and the one that got your prayer is jealous
    3. God might not interfere at all
    4. God might have better stuff to do like delaying the eruption of a volcano.

    A joke i heard is prolly very useful to understand a reasonable approach to religion.(ignore it if you saw it already)

    "A flood happens. A very religious man gets on top of his house. Water everywhere. A neighbor comes in a boat and offers to save the man. The man refuses saying that God is grand, God will save him. Another neighbor comes and again offers to save him and the religious man refuses him. He refuses even the third neighbour who offered a lift in his boat. The water rises and the man drowns. Arriving at the pearly gates, he angrily asks StPeter why, with all his unwavering faith wasn't he saved to which Peter, after looking through some papers, responses:
    "Well it says here God sent you three boats and you refused"
    "
  9. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    27 Oct '08 14:483 edits
    That's pretty cryptic but I think I understand what you're getting at and it does go
    some way to answering my questions. You're saying that Christian judgememt is more
    important than faith becuase with absolute judgement you can still have faith but with
    absolute faith you cannot have judgement.

    If no Christians faith is absolute, how then can we have a divide between what is
    Christian and what is not?

    Does greater faith imply greater Christianity or does a lesser faith and a stronger
    belief in scripture imply greater Christianity?
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    28 Oct '08 10:40
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    That's pretty cryptic but I think I understand what you're getting at and it does go
    some way to answering my questions. You're saying that Christian judgememt is more
    important than faith becuase with absolute judgement you can still have faith but with
    absolute faith you cannot have judgement.

    If no Christians faith is absolute, how then can we hav ...[text shortened]... ianity or does a lesser faith and a stronger
    belief in scripture imply greater Christianity?
    in the case of christianity i believe it is even easier to embrace change than say islam.

    who is at the center of christianity? jesus. and jesus didn't come on earth to command us to believe in genesis and leviticus, quite the opposite. he brought change. he challenged a well established law and brought about the general idea that if you love god and love thy neighbor you should be quite ok.

    so since jesus brought change, why are christians so afraid of it? my opinion is that they are afraid to think for themselves, to make choices that to them seem only god can make. i say different. i say that if you love and do good, it doesn't matter if you are gay. i say it doesn't matter if you don't believe in YEC. jesus is a shining example of how a life should be lived. through love and moderation, through self sacrifice for the good of others, through meaningful deeds that better the knowledge and life of humanity one can lead a fulfilling life. One doesn't have to sacrifice reason to be a good christian or muslim or jew. or better said to be a good human, logical as well as spiritual.
  11. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    28 Oct '08 11:11
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    in the case of christianity i believe it is even easier to embrace change than say islam.

    who is at the center of christianity? jesus. and jesus didn't come on earth to command us to believe in genesis and leviticus, quite the opposite. he brought change. he challenged a well established law and brought about the general idea that if you love god and lo ...[text shortened]... hristian or muslim or jew. or better said to be a good human, logical as well as spiritual.
    Hmm I agree with what you say. But I'm still unclear about certain things.

    I have met atheists who live by Christian morals and ethics (for the most
    part), who believe that Jesus was a good and wise man that lived long ago.
    Atheists that are kind and good to their neighbours, not from fear of God
    but because they believe they're all in the same mosh pit and there's no
    sense in pushing.

    On the other end of the scale, I have met Christians who do believe in God and
    Jesus being the son of God but are greedy and garrulous people.
    They adhere to Christian morals and values because they are frightened that
    they will go to hell if they do not.

    Who would you consider to be be more Christian?
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    28 Oct '08 11:54
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    Hmm I agree with what you say. But I'm still unclear about certain things.

    I have met atheists who live by Christian morals and ethics (for the most
    part), who believe that Jesus was a good and wise man that lived long ago.
    Atheists that are kind and good to their neighbours, not from fear of God
    but because they believe they're all in the same mosh p ...[text shortened]... hat
    they will go to hell if they do not.

    Who would you consider to be be more Christian?
    it doesn't suffice to say "i believe in jesus". atheists who live by christian values are much better than christians who do not. in fact christian means following christ not by what you claim, but by what you do and who you are.

    for that matter, i believe that it isn't that important what religion you are. i would hate to see repentant rapists and murderers in haven and see an atheist pediatrician who saved countless children burn in hell because he didn't say on his deathbed "i accept jesus as my savior" as the aforementioned rapist might have done. i certainly hope god isn't the maniac some christians or some muslims portray him to be.

    The words of emo philips: "As a kid i prayed to god every day for a new bike until i realized god doesn't work that way. So i stole a bike and asked God for forgiveness." this is what catholics suggest. that if you repent, truly repent, you are admitted back among god's buddies. but what happens with the truly decent atheists who were much better persons that the repentants. catholics say they burn in hell.

    i say god isn't that cruel.
  13. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    29 Oct '08 23:49
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    it doesn't suffice to say "i believe in jesus". atheists who live by christian values are much better than christians who do not. in fact christian means following christ not by what you claim, but by what you do and who you are.

    for that matter, i believe that it isn't that important what religion you are. i would hate to see repentant rapists and murde ...[text shortened]... at the repentants. catholics say they burn in hell.

    i say god isn't that cruel.
    So why does the bible teach us the contrary? That you are not a good person
    unless you believe in God and Jesus? That even the lowest Christian is better
    than the highest atheist. What kind of message does that send to our children?
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    30 Oct '08 10:24
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    So why does the bible teach us the contrary? That you are not a good person
    unless you believe in God and Jesus? That even the lowest Christian is better
    than the highest atheist. What kind of message does that send to our children?
    the bible was written by cranky old men who thought that god is whispering to them. even so, other doodz decided some people who claimed they were inspired by god are less inspired than others: a lot of scriptures are left out.

    and because they accept the premise that the bible is inspired by god, they claim it is sin and heresy to try and change it. what if it is not? jesus changed a lot when he came, bringing a message of love and compassion and humility. if you follow that message, why couldn't you adapt to change. my opinion is that you should read the bible. and then read the qur'an. and any religious book you may find, and then read dawkins. (not hitchens he is a moron 😀) and make up your own mind. i doubt god would hold a real grudge against the atheist doctor that saves children every day
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