1. Standard memberDasa
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    26 Jul '10 08:49
    Recently there was a thread about happiness, but lets examine that further:

    The Vedic teachings tell us that in this world of Birth, Death, Disease and Old Age there is no real happiness because the fleeting happiness that one experiences, is temporary and illusional.

    When a man negates suffering for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, he thinks he is happy but its just a trick of the illusionary energy, and it is really just a negation of the suffering for a short while.

    In this world the conditioned souls think, sex life is the highest pleasure, and therefore he equates this to happiness, but this is false happiness according to the Vedic teachings, because for so much trouble to procure sex, mans 3 minutes of chemically induced pleasure is not happiness but actually suffering.

    Real happiness is derived from the spiritual/transcendental platform, and the pinnacle of true happiness is found in the loving and transcendental relationship to the Sureme Lord with the Spiritual Living Being, and this relationship is always increasing and is eternal (never ending) and not temporary.

    Buddhist are very skilled at negating everything, hence they shield themselves from much suffering, and assume this is ultimate happiness.

    The successful Buddhist practitioner, goes to the spiritual sky, (but not the spiritual abode of the Supreme where the transcendentalist enjoys relationship,) and in the spiritual sky he becomes one with the effulgence of the Supreme, the (Brahmajoti)

    Actually in this age of Kali, there are really not many Buddhist practitioners successfull enough to reach the Spiritual Sky, but they end up taking birth again in this world of suffering.

    Vishva
  2. Standard memberAgerg
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    26 Jul '10 13:00
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Recently there was a thread about happiness, but lets examine that further:

    The Vedic teachings tell us that in this world of Birth, Death, Disease and Old Age there is no real happiness because the fleeting happiness that one experiences, is temporary and illusional.

    When a man negates suffering for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, he thinks he is ...[text shortened]... each the Spiritual Sky, but they end up taking birth again in this world of suffering.

    Vishva
    So you're re-defining what it means to be happy then. Well sans Reveal Hidden Content
    [sarcasm]
    the perfect and thoroughly unimpeachable knowledge you possessReveal Hidden Content
    [/sarcasm]
    I say that in any way that is meaningful to me, I experience happiness often.
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    26 Jul '10 15:59
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Recently there was a thread about happiness, but lets examine that further:

    The Vedic teachings tell us that in this world of Birth, Death, Disease and Old Age there is no real happiness because the fleeting happiness that one experiences, is temporary and illusional.

    When a man negates suffering for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, he thinks he is ...[text shortened]... each the Spiritual Sky, but they end up taking birth again in this world of suffering.

    Vishva
    You speak of the way of devotion.
    There are other ways.
    Happinness is related to ignorance.

    These teachings you expouse are well known by the more insightful posters, the others will either think you are trying to sell something or have been brainwashed.

    Lets say you are right. What then? What practical advice would you give to move out of "suffering"?
  4. Standard memberua41
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    26 Jul '10 16:131 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    What practical advice would you give to move out of "suffering"?
    Indulge in your suffering. You expose yourself to the true reality of things by dealing with them directly. And by directly, there is no set course for everyone. It's your direct (simple and true initiative) course, how you deal with things and what things are presented to you. You keep your line pure and can see the entanglement of things holding you back. One cannot have happiness without the knowledge of suffering due to its relative position (suffering and happiness amongst each other).

    There is essentially no difference, it's like tipping the scale in one way or the other and its all based upon how you react to context. Easy to get lost in one way or the other but it's all part of the same system. Keeping a bigger perspective as a foundation helps with the application of all the parts.

    And when you are happy, do not forget what brought you their in the first place. Be mindful of the whole spectra of emotion, their roots and their potential.
  5. Joined
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    26 Jul '10 16:342 edits
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Recently there was a thread about happiness, but lets examine that further:

    The Vedic teachings tell us that in this world of Birth, Death, Disease and Old Age there is no real happiness because the fleeting happiness that one experiences, is temporary and illusional.

    When a man negates suffering for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, he thinks he is ...[text shortened]... each the Spiritual Sky, but they end up taking birth again in this world of suffering.

    Vishva
    No matter how you try to frame it or justify it, the desire for happiness is self-centered. In a world where there is suffering, only through self-delusion can one attain happiness. One should seek reality rather than happiness.
  6. Cape Town
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    26 Jul '10 18:38
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    No matter how you try to frame it or justify it, the desire for happiness is self-centered. In a world where there is suffering, only through self-delusion can one attain happiness. One should seek reality rather than happiness.
    That depends on what is important to you. If happiness is more important than selflessness then why not go with self delusion? Half the world seems to do that.
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    26 Jul '10 20:28
    Originally posted by ua41
    Indulge in your suffering. You expose yourself to the true reality of things by dealing with them directly. And by directly, there is no set course for everyone. It's your direct (simple and true initiative) course, how you deal with things and what things are presented to you. You keep your line pure and can see the entanglement of things holding you back. One ...[text shortened]... the first place. Be mindful of the whole spectra of emotion, their roots and their potential.
    Ok. Thats one way-and probably closest to my way.

    Follow up Question: Are you the same person on payday? I'm not-though I'm mindful of that.For example on payday I just walk by a five cent piece,thinking "I would've bent down and picked that up yesterday"
  8. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    26 Jul '10 20:31
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    No matter how you try to frame it or justify it, the desire for happiness is self-centered. In a world where there is suffering, only through self-delusion can one attain happiness. One should seek reality rather than happiness.
    There is room in the world for BALANCED self-centeredness.
    Anyway sometimes you get happy for no reason whatsoever. There is no seeking it.
    Happiness is a mystery.
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    26 Jul '10 20:46
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    That depends on what is important to you. If happiness is more important than selflessness then why not go with self delusion? Half the world seems to do that.
    Seems to me it's much more than half the world 🙂

    Are any of the myriad of transgressions of man against man not borne of self-centeredness? Such are the lengths that individuals are willing to go to in order to achieve their own brand of "happiness" for themselves.
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    26 Jul '10 20:51
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    There is room in the world for BALANCED self-centeredness.
    Anyway sometimes you get happy for no reason whatsoever. There is no seeking it.
    Happiness is a mystery.
    I'll share with you a comment someone made to me many years ago, "No one thinks they're a bad person", which is largely true. Thieves, murderers, rapists, liars, even politicians, etc., almost invariably are able to convince themselves that their self-centeredness is "BALANCED".
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    26 Jul '10 22:04
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    I'll share with you a comment someone made to me many years ago, "No one thinks they're a bad person", which is largely true. Thieves, murderers, rapists, liars, even politicians, etc., almost invariably are able to convince themselves that their self-centeredness is "BALANCED".
    Very good point.

    Obviously the type of happiness I advocate shouldn't infringe on other' freedoms. (And there's a lot of red tape there too)
    "even politicians" lol😀 ... shouldn't it be "especially politicians"

    Anyway I think vishva is talking about "spiritual happiness", which I'm not commenting on because the way we normally understand happinness goes against Spirit and props up the ego.
  12. Standard memberDasa
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    26 Jul '10 22:40
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    You speak of the way of devotion.
    There are other ways.
    Happinness is related to ignorance.

    These teachings you expouse are well known by the more insightful posters, the others will either think you are trying to sell something or have been brainwashed.

    Lets say you are right. What then? What practical advice would you give to move out of "suffering"?
    Thankyou for the question.

    The living entity, upon taking birth in this world, is forced to suffer the three fold miseries of life.
    1. Adhyatmic (suffering from ones own body and mind)
    2. Adhybhautika (suffering from other living entities)
    3. Adhydaivika ( suffering from the natural world)

    So the purpose of life is not to get entangled in the pursuit of sense gratification, which is available even to the animals, and people are trying to alleviate suffering by increasing material enjoyment, but an intelligent man knows that doing this is adding fuel to the fire of material suffering.

    We are a Spiritual Being having a human experience, and to stop the cycle of repeated birth and death in this world, we must take to the transcendental path of self realization.

    The beginning of the spiritual life, is the acquiring of transcendental knowledge, by study of the Vedic literature and the taking up of devotion practices for the advancment of God consciouness. This is the only way to stop the cycle of birth and death for the living entity. (one must be properly directed in devotional practices)

    Even if one does not achieve full realization in this life, then his/her next life will be auspiscious, and he will be able to continue on the spiritual path.

    The material world of suffering, is not our real home, and there is a Spiritual realm where we originally came from, and the Spiritual life is the life that will return us to that eternal spiritual realm,where there is no birth or death or suffering.

    An intelligent man understands this!

    Viahva
  13. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    27 Jul '10 01:43
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Thankyou for the question.

    The living entity, upon taking birth in this world, is forced to suffer the three fold miseries of life.
    1. Adhyatmic (suffering from ones own body and mind)
    2. Adhybhautika (suffering from other living entities)
    3. Adhydaivika ( suffering from the natural world)

    So the purpose of life is not to get entangled in the p ...[text shortened]... where there is no birth or death or suffering.

    An intelligent man understands this!

    Viahva
    I wouldn't call myself intelligent, but I understand.
    Devotion has been one of my weak points and I've tried to address that in the last few years.
    One point: I believe it is important to remain positive.
    Positivity will overcome your addictions, not negative repression.
    You haven't had a cigarette for 20 years. So what ? If the hankering is still there...

    No,no,this goes far beyond just material satisfaction. This is the path to god-hood and it can only be approached with a positive,faithful mind.
    There are no obstacles except the...hang on my mates here 🙂 (finish later)
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    27 Jul '10 01:501 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Very good point.

    Obviously the type of happiness I advocate shouldn't infringe on other' freedoms. (And there's a lot of red tape there too)
    "even politicians" lol😀 ... shouldn't it be "especially politicians"

    Anyway I think vishva is talking about "spiritual happiness", which I'm not commenting on because the way we normally understand happinness goes against Spirit and props up the ego.
    Thought you might like the bit about "politicians".

    It's been my experience that when people speak of "spiritual happiness"and the like, it not only props up the ego, but makes it almost unassailable. These are some of the most dangerously self-centered people I've known.
  15. Standard memberblack beetle
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    27 Jul '10 04:03
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I wouldn't call myself intelligent, but I understand.
    Devotion has been one of my weak points and I've tried to address that in the last few years.
    One point: I believe it is important to remain positive.
    Positivity will overcome your addictions, not negative repression.
    You haven't had a cigarette for 20 years. So what ? If the hankering is still ...[text shortened]... ,faithful mind.
    There are no obstacles except the...hang on my mates here 🙂 (finish later)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=YJh71tzFlhk&feature=related

    😵
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