Relationship with Jesus

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==========================
However, such closeness with His contemporaries doesn't entail that a future believer (a post-Resurrection/post-Ascension one) need to be His brothers.
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Speak for yourself. Why do you think John wrote all of this? It was not to put up the twelve on pedestal. It was direction and ...[text shortened]... he same standard. They can't just choose which one is convenient for their criticisms.[/b]

When are you two jokers going to realise that you are just defining the word 'relationship' differently.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Are you trying to goad me into becoming a raving lunatic? You could not have picked a more
insipid, meaningless, vapid, vacuous, banal hymn. I mean, short of 'Jesus loves me this I know...,' you couldn't have gotten more trite. I mean, the guy couldn't rhyme anything
except 'prayer,' 'there,' 'bear,' 'care,' and so on. What a joke! And you don't even e Bride
With Thee by living fountains Forever shall abide!
---Samuel J. Stone

The Nemesio includes this marvelous classic Christian Hymn to support his relationshipLESS brand of discipleship:

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The Church’s one foundation Is Jesus Christ her Lord,
She is His new creation By water and the Word.
From heaven He came and sought her To be His holy bride;
With His own blood He bought her And for her life He died.

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Tell me what husband does not have a RELATIONSHIP with his bride? And what bride does not have a relationship with her husband?

Here the church is the COLLECTIVE and CORPORATE BRIDE and WIFE of Jesus Christ. How could there then not be a relationship?

In this song the emphasis is on the collective and aggregate group. However, that is composed of many many intimate relationships all rolled up into one corporate intimate love for Jesus.

This is exactly the wrong song for Nemesio to push his wrong ideas.

Originally posted by Rajk999
When are you two jokers going to realise that you are just defining the word 'relationship' differently.

How do you think he is using the term relationship then Raj999?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Originally posted by jaywill
How do you think he is using the term relationship then Raj999?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

I dont know if I can explain it to your satifaction but the 'relationship' you claim to have with Christ is one in which you talk on a one to one basis with Him. Much the same way that Abraham, Moses etc did with God, and the disciples did with Christ.

Nemesio thinks you are fooling yourself. I am tempted to say the same thing but I know its likely that Christ actually talks to people. If Christ spoke to me directly I wont tell a soul unless I was instructed to do so. The fact of the matter is that countless Christians these days claim to have a 'personal' relationship with Christ but I suspect 99% of them are deluded.

The relationship most people have with Christ is one in which we never see or hear from Him but we simply follow His teachings. We never actually talk with Christ except through prayer. So its more of an arms-length relationship, not a personal one.

Both relationships obviously exist in the Bible so there is no need to agrue over them.

Nemesio writes:

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This ties in with the notion of being 'born from above.'
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The word picture used by the Holy Spirit of being "born" establishes a strong relationship between the Begettor and the begotten.

Paul says that the crying of "Abba Father" in the most intimate way proves the closeness of this relationship. Abba is a word like "Daddy".

"And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father!" Gal. 4:6)

This indicates a most intimate relationship between the son and the Father as to call God "Daddy" or "Papa".


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For St Paul, a person 'within whom the spirit of Christ dwells' is a believer. A person who has Christ in his heart, will also have Him on His lips and in His understanding. Christ, for St Paul, then is not a person with whom to have a relationship, but a means by which one is transformed to the higher, Godly calling.
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All this agrues against Nemesio's case for a relationLESS Christian life. Maybe this is his way of realizing that he sees something of the error of his first complaints.

He said that a relationship with Jesus is a concept "utterly foriegn" to he Bible. That is like me saying the concept of a man wanting to get revenge on a whale is "utterly foriegn" to the book Moby Dick.

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For St Paul, believers now have a mediator between God and humankind, and the believer can
imbibe that mediator, and consequently be opened to truths hitherto unavailable to humankind.
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I am glad Nemesio points this out. However, he should also point out that the mediatorial intecession is carried out WITHIN the believers too, by the Holy Spirit:

"Moreover, in like manner the Spirit also joins in to help us in our weakness, for we do not know for what we should pray as is fitting, BUT THE SPIRIT HIMSELF INTERCEDES FOR US with groanings which cannot be uttered." (my emphasis on Rom. 8:26) ... He [Holy Spirit] intercedes for the saints according to God."

The mediatorial function is not only carried out by Christ far away in the heavens. It is also carried out WITHIN the believers hears and spirit since Christ indwells them.

In Romans 8 the location of Christ is both at the right hand of God in heaven (8:34) and within the believers as the Spirit (8:9-11).

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Through that indwelling (not relationship), the fruits of the spirit can blossom, first in the hearts
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The indwelling is a relationship. For Nemesio to deny this is ridiculous.

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of believers, and then in the lives of believers, sowing the metaphorical seeds of faith within the fields of the world.

My summary is concordant with St Paul's teaching (though it only summarizes a small portion
of it)
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That's what I say. I write actually only a little of what there is to be said. Yet some posters cannot bear to read it all. Too bad.

I read all of Nemesio's comments. Maybe he'll stop whining and read mine discussion in response. If not, that's OK too.

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and doesn't involve the 'R-word' that was sooooo important, that St Paul fails to mention
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I had to make it sooooo important because Nemesio on this subject is sooooooo ignorant.


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Now, having offered my rebuttal to your claim, I'm going to ask you this:

Rather than spout
out a few more irrelevant or misinterpreted Biblical citations, try addressing my specific claims directly.
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Been done. "Spout", " Vomit", "Regergitate" .... whatever.
You have no case.

==========================
Keep in mind that you didn't actually respond to my initial post (to see 'a few of the main thesis statements of Broadbent's proof'😉,
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It is write that I said nothing about a quotation in Broadbent's book. I read most of it twice but no longer have my copy.

It is not relevant. The Broadbent references was to show a book was written about the vital relationships disciples have always had with Jesus.

My discussion has been more on the part that such a relationship, according to Nemesio, is "utterly foreign (spelling?) to the Bible.

Hymns, biographies, testionials, sermons, books, pamphlets, songs, poems written down through the centries testify that people had communion and fellowship with Jesus from the first century to today. Even in the 1700s Madame Guyom (locked up in a prison) wrote of her intimate fellowship with Jesus which still inspires people today.

Brother Lawrence famous sayings compiled into a book "The Practice of the Presence of God" told of his fellowship with Jesus as a cook admits the chaos of a busy monk's kitchen.


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but that's okay. You offered what you took to
be evidence of the basic claim. Rather than ignoring what I wrote and just ranting and raving,
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I recommened the book to your reading. I no longer have a copy to quote from.

I may not have quoted from the book. But your case for not relationship with Jesus because of the non-existence of such a thought in the Bible is demolished as skeptic's daydream.

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address specifically what I wrote. Otherwise, it's just cat and mouse where you make these sweeping claims based on the tiniest excisions of Scripture (not even full verses!) and I have
to keep putting these verses in context that demonstrates how your claims are false.
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These men all spoke of a relationship with God:


Clement (A.D. 30-100)
Ignatius (A.D. 98-135)
Justin Martyr (A.D. 100-160)
Ireneus (A.D. 125-203)
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-220)
Tertullian (A.D. 160-220)
Origen (A.D. 185-254)
Hipplutus (A.D. 175-235)
Cyprian (A.D. 200-260)
Novatian (A.D. 230- 265)
Methodius (A.D. 260-312)
Athansius (A.D. 296-273)
Basil of Caesarea (A.D. 330-368)
Hilary of Poitiers (A.D. 310 - 368)
Gregory of Nyssa (A.D. 330-395)
Gregory of Nazienzen (A.D. 330-395)
Augustine (A.D. 354-430)

This is just to name a few scholarly types. This would not include many more common folks who enjoyed a relationship with Christ whom God knows but history has forgotten.

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Give it a try. Engage in a discussion rather than the 'on and on and on' soliloquies.
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Nemesio has his style. I have mine. If he's too lazy to read then let him remain with his ignorance on this subject.

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I think a good place to start (rather than Scriptre) is with your definition of what a relationship is, and then how a relationship with Jesus ought to look like, and then support it with Scripture.
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Then why didn't you start there if that was a good place to start?

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But that's just my suggestion (you know, that you offer concrete definitions of the terms being bandied about, and how those definitions are realized on a practical level). Take it or leave it.
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Nemesio said a relationshipwith Jesus is UTTERLY FOREIGN TO THE BIBLE.

Now he want me to clean up his mess and define relationship. Oh no. I think everyone understands the word.

The relationship starts with Him purchasing us out from under the law of God with His blood. It continues with Him indwelling the saved. It continiues with His processes of sanctification, transformation, conformation. All throughout the believer is called into the fellowship of God's Son.

This fellowship deepens with maturity. This fellowship continues on into eternity. As vast as the universe is testifies to the depth of this relationship. It will take eternity to explore and enjoy.


Then we have the writings of

Luther (A.D. 1483 - 1546) telling of his habits of communing with God.

And John Calvin (A.D. 1509-1564) helping believers in this regard

And Walter Marshall (A.D. 1628-1670?) helping the church to know Christ.

And John Nelson Darby (A.D. 1800-1882)

Meanwhile there are the songs, poems and many spirituals testifying the relationship of believers who even were slaves. In such circumstances they had communion with Christ in their sufferings.

There are about 900 hymns written by Ms Crosby about the Christian's relationship with Jesus.

The truth is there if Nemesio wants to find it. I don't think he does.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Okay, Jaywill. First let's agree that nowhere in the Bible does St Paul, St John, St James, St
Peter, St Jude or Jesus say that the key to a well-formed faith is in relationship with Jesus.
The word 'relationship,' one so key to your theological perspective, is completely absent in
the Christian Scriptures.

Now, let's go through your quotations. T ...[text shortened]... Take it or leave it.

Nemesio

...such closeness with His contemporaries doesn't entail that a future believer (a post-Resurrection/post-Ascension one) need to be His brothers.

That's not according to Christ, however, who said that anyone - anyone - who does the will of the Father has a familial relationship with the Son:

"And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother"" (Matthew 12:49-50).

"And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother"" (Mark 3:34-35).
__________

That which brings individuals into a relationship with Jesus is not demarcated by proximity. Jesus did not say, "only those who know me in my earthly form have a relationship with me." On the contrary, he said, "whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother." God's kingdom would be a poor kingdom indeed if his only friends were those whom he met while he walked the earth.

Therefore, whoever does the will of the Father, inherits the same promises given to the disciples. Such as: "I am with you always" (Matt. 28:20), and, "No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you" (John 15:15), etc.

Now, naturally, Jesus had a relationship with His Disciples. I'm not disputing that Sts John, Matthew, James, James, Peter, Philip, &c &c &c didn't know Jesus or didn't have a relationship with Him. But this is the pre-Resurrection Jesus. His followers needed to have a relationship with Him. I was talking about the followers of Jesus after the NT period.

As I've already discussed, those who follow Christ inherit every promise given to his disciples. And the means by which this relationship continues, and has continued down through the centuries, is through the Holy Spirit whom Christ sent to his followers post-resurrection.

“If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified" (John 7:35-39).

Notice here that Christ is speaking specifically of those who would be his followers after his resurrection. To them (us) he says, "come to Me." This is an invitation to a relationship!

I find it amusing that you can believe that the author of this passage equated Jesus with God, when He Himself says that He will ascend to His God, but not to digress....

What I find it amusing is that the hymn which you cite contains a reference to the Trinity.

"Yet she on earth hath union With God the Three in One..."

Did you read the hymn before you posted it? 🙂

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
Actually, it isn’t just the case that he COULD go on and on; he DOES go on and on.

Indeed, his words--or rather those of others he is impelled to quote--are made flesh, and they dwell among us. Permanently.

But brevity isn't one of the Ten Commandments, is it? Indeed, isn't the interminable prolixity of jaywill's posts a metaphor for the eternal life you would inherit if only you heeded his pious pleas?

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Indeed, his words--or rather those of others he is impelled to quote--are made flesh, and they dwell among us. Permanently.

But brevity isn't one of the Ten Commandments, is it? Indeed, isn't the interminable prolixity of jaywill's posts a metaphor for the eternal life you would inherit if only you heeded his pious pleas?

Say "heeded his pious pleas" 10 times fast.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont know if I can explain it to your satifaction but the 'relationship' you claim to have with Christ is one in which you talk on a one to one basis with Him. Much the same way that Abraham, Moses etc did with God, and the disciples did with Christ.

Nemesio thinks you are fooling yourself. I am tempted to say the same thing but I know its likely that C .

Both relationships obviously exist in the Bible so there is no need to agrue over them.

Rajk999,

[/b]==========================================
If Christ spoke to me directly I wont tell a soul unless I was instructed to do so. The fact of the matter is that countless Christians these days claim to have a 'personal' relationship with Christ but I suspect 99% of them are deluded.
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Why would you think you have percentages on who is and who is not deluded ?


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The relationship most people have with Christ is one in which we never see or hear from Him but we simply follow His teachings. We never actually talk with Christ except through prayer. So its more of an arms-length relationship, not a personal one.
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Contact with Christ by way of prayer can get very deep indeed. And His moving and speaking (not audibly) to the praying one also can go very deep.

There is nothing that I cannot take to Christ in fellowship with an honest heart. Furthermore His word to me can at times be very specific.

This experience is not delusion. It does take time to learn and develop. And the depths of it, I do not think, can be reached in this life time. How detailed a word from Christ you can handle depends upon the degree to which you are opened in your heart to yield every part of your life to Him.

The Apostle John discribed "the anointing" which teaches the Christian concerning all things:

"And as for you, the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie, even as it has taught you, abide in Him." (1 John 2:27)

The anointing "teaches". That requires a kind of deep intuitive speaking of God to the believer. The anointing constantly teaches the believers to "abide in Him". That means Christ teaches us not to do things independently from Him, but to get into His presence, linger there, remain there, abide there and live.

The anointing is a kind of rubbing around to press an ointment into something. Think of Vicks Vapor Rub. This is an analogy. The teaching of the anointing is actually God the Spirit pressing Himself into the persons soul.

Or we may think of the anointing as painting. Coat after coat of paint is applied to a object to change the appearance and texture of that object. The paint gradually fills up all the cracks and crevices. This is an analogy of the anointing the Christian receives from Christ. It not only teaches but it fills in, coats over, changes the appearance and "texture" of the one who receives it.

The bottom line is that Jesus Christ is living in people today and teaching them in His way of speaking to them. And the same experience could belong to anyone reading this post if they were opened to Christ in the depths of their being.

The speaking and teaching of Christ grows deeper and more keen by confession and obedience. The more in detail one confesses his departing from God's will in repentence the keener and finer the speaking of Christ becomes.

He gives some speaking to see how you will handle that. If you obey that through His enabling grace then He grants more speaking, deeper speaking. Listening to this speaking can cause encredibly difficult and knotty problems in life to be overcome.

When we follow His speaking and come out of the jungles of our problems we have a renewed confirmation that Jesus Christ is real. The unbelivers do not understand this. But we are more confirmed because we have seen Christ work in our lives when we followed His speaking.

We may not have mathematical proof of the livingness of Jesus. But we are reinforced that we are on the right track. After all as ephephinhas pointed out so well, Jesus' closing words in Matthew's Gospel:


"And behold, I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age" (Matt. 28:20)

Hello Epiphineahs,

Because Jaywill is unable to post except in his usual convoluted style of unrelated, stream-of-
conscious creedal statements, it's going to take a while for me to wade through his voluminous
missive in order to divide his ideas into groups of related notions, but I did want to comment to
you first. Since you are capable of a cogent presentation of ideas (even if I don't often agree
with them), I'll answer you first and try to figure out how to respond to Jaywill in a way that
won't take me 6 hours.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
"And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother"" (Matthew 12:49-50).

I wasn't clear -- and this came apparent when Jaywill thought I was misunderstanding the
hymn I posted -- about what I mean about relationship. Obviously there is a relation
between Jesus and the Church -- as Jaywill pointed out, as between a groom and her bride.
Because Christianity is founded on Jesus, of course there's a relation between Him and the Church.
But that relation is just like Judaism and Moses; there's a relation between Moses and the
Jewish people, but that doesn't entail any sort of relationship as some Christians seem to
misguidedly claim to have with Jesus. Using Hebrew Scriptures, one could scan the Psalms
or Proverbs find over a dozen references to 'being in Communion with God' or 'knowing God'
or variants of that sort. That's very different than the sort of relationship that Jaywill is talking
about with Jesus. Jaywill says that 'He's met Jesus,' and he doesn't mean it in the same way
that you see God in nature, or you experience God in the suffering of a child or things like
that. He means a relationship indistinguishable from the one you have with your friends and
colleagues (only better). It is that connotation of 'relationship' that I have a gripe. The idea
(indeed, the hubris) of having a personal relationship. You'll notice that absent from the
hymn I quoted is the 'individual' relationship with Jesus, but instead the idea of the relation
between Jesus and the Church as a whole. Just like you and I don't have a relationship to the
President of the United States, there is a relation between what he thinks and does and how
we are affected.

You could have cited one of my favorite passages, St Matthew 25:31-46, to make the point
even more plainly; in it Jesus says that believers must see Him in the needs of other people,
and doing for them is as doing for Him. But that relationship is symbolic, not actual (though
no less real or valid). If I thought Jaywill meant only this (and I am sure he doesn't
exclude this aspect of it), then I never would have started this thread because I think such a
symbolic relationship is both historical and Biblical.

But he doesn't. He means that he has a personal relationship with Jesus. He talks to Jesus.
He eats with Jesus. They hang out after work (and during work). They play basketball together
in an adult Christian basketball league. And so on and so on.

That which brings individuals into a relationship with Jesus is not demarcated by proximity.

A relationship is not demarcated by proximity. You and I have a relationship. We've never
met, and I don't even know your name. But we interact. I can say 'x' and you can say, 'no, no,
'y,'' and away we go. Our relationship has common elements to the other, deeper, and richer
relationships you have, as with your wife or children (if you have them...) or siblings or
parents, and dear friends. A 'relationship' with Jesus doesn't have those characteristics upon
which the concept is founded, unless you want to redefine relationship.

A relationship is contingent upon intimacy. You and I have a certain intimacy. When
you speak, I respond and vice versa. And while anonymity shields you from a certain degree
of emotional investment, by engaging in dialogue, you make yourself vulnerable to criticism,
hurt, or suffering. Jesus obviously had this with the people who knew Him, in greater degrees
with the Disciples than say the Pharisees. He does not have that relationship anymore.

Yes, people say, 'But when I pray, Jesus talks to me' or 'When I'm sad, He holds my hand and
comforts me,' or 'I ask Him to help me, and He does.' And I think such statements are both
deviations from what Jesus taught (and what was followed for 1800 years) and delusional. The
reason I say the latter is because the reciprocity that such people claim to have is totally
unverifiable. If you're in a room and praying and say, 'Jesus told me that I should give my
money to the poor,' and I'm in the room and I start to pray and ask Jesus to tell me what
He just told you, I could very well get a different answer. Or if we're both praying together
about the health of a person whom we love in common, we both can get mixed signals. The
dialogue that you and I enjoy and can share amongst the relationships we have with other
people doesn't exist with Jesus.

As I've already discussed, those who follow Christ inherit every promise given to his disciples. And the means by which this relationship continues, and has continued down through the centuries, is through the Holy Spirit whom Christ sent to his followers post-resurrection. ... Notice here that Christ is speaking specifically of those who would be his followers after his resurrection. To them (us) he says, "come to Me." This is an invitation to a relationship!

No, it is an invitation, through and understanding of Jesus' teachings, to continue the legacy
of charity and compassion with the aid and inspiration of the Holy Spirit. That is, whereas
one might have the inclination to be selfish and not share of his bounty with a person in need,
an attentive listener to the Holy Spirit's calling -- a command of the Father through the Son --
will suppress the urge to be selfish and give to the person in need. Again, this is more of a
'relation' or a 'tie' between Christians of today and of yesteryear all the way back to Jesus'
time rather than a relationship between a believer and Jesus Himself.

What I find it amusing is that the hymn which you cite contains a reference to the Trinity.

Why? Have I ever said the Trinity was false? I have I ever said 'I spit on the Trinity and those
fools who believe in it?' No. Never. I've merely stated that a belief in the Trinity is a creedal
one, not a Biblical one, and (invariably) that I have no problem with those who believe in the
Trinity as long as they are honest about how they've come to believe it. I think the notion
of the Trinity has the capacity to be a very good theological tool, and one of my favorite
sermons was delivered by a Capuchin priest on Trinity Sunday. Why would you be 'amused?'

Did you read the hymn before you posted it? 🙂

I could recite five stanzas of that hymn from memory without difficulty, and play it from
memory on the organ in C, D, and E-flat major in SATB format, soloing out the melody on
selected stanzas, or reharmonizing it at will. My point with the citation was not to offer some
sort of statement contrary to Jaywill's claims, but to offer a hymn that has a beautiful poetic
structure in relief to the doggrel he cited, as well as illustrate the sort of historical relation
between Jesus and Church that has a Biblical basis, not a 'personal relationship' which was a
response to the growing distance being created by 19th-century writers on religion who were
becoming more and more Deistic in tone, where God was largely absent in the lives of
individuals.

Nemesio

Another Classic Christian Hymn Emphaisizing the Personal Relationship with Jesus:

[b] I serve a risen Savior;
He's in the world today.
I know that He is living,
Whatever men may say.
I see His hand of mercy;
I hear His voice of cheer;
And just the time I need Him
He'se alwasy near.

Chorus:

He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!
He walks with me and talks with me
along life's narrow way.
He lives He lives, salvation to impart!
You ask me how I know He lives?
He lives within my heart.

In all the world around me
I see His loving care,
And though my heart grows weary,
I never will dispair;
I know that He is leading,
Through all the stormy blast;
The day of His appearing
Will come at last.


Rejoice, rejoice O Christian,
Lift up your voice and sing
Eternal hallelujahs
To Jesus Christ the King!
The Hope of all who seek Him,
The Help of all who find,
None other is so loving,
So good and kind.

He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!
He walks with me and talks with me
along life's narrow way.
He lives He lives, salvation to impart!
You ask me how I know He lives?
He lives within my heart.

Originally posted by jaywill

I serve a risen Savior;
He's in the world today.
I know that He is living,
Whatever men may say.
I see His hand of mercy;
I hear His voice of cheer;
And just the time I need Him
He'se alwasy near.

You ask me how I know He lives?
He lives within my heart.

Don't you know any hymns that aren't crap?

I mean, what does it say about the maturity of your faith when the text and music are things
that can be written by an eighth grader?

Another Christian Hymn to the Tune of "O Come All Ye Faithful"

Hymn 505 Living Stream Ministry Hymn Book (used without permission )

[b] There's a Man in the glory
Whose life is for me.
He's pure and He's holy,
Triumphant and free.
He's wise and He's loving,
How tender is He!
His life in the glory
My life must be;
His life in the glory
My life must be.

There's a man in the glory
Whose Life is for me.
He overcame Satan;
From bondage He's free.
In Life He is reigning
How kingly is He!
His life in the glory,
My life must be;
His life in the glory,
My life must be.

There's a man in the glory
Whose Life is for me.
In Him is no sickness;
No weakness has He.
He's strong and in vigor,
How buoyant is He!
His Life in the glory
My life may be;
His Life in the glory
My life may be.

There's a Man in the glory
Whose Life is for me.
His peace is abiding;
How patient is He!
He's joyful and radiant,
Expecting to see
His life in the glory
Lived out in me;
His life in the gory
Lived out in me.

Another Love Hymn on a Personal Relationship with Jesus based on the poetry in the Song of Songs.

Hymn 1154 Living Stream Ministry Hymnal

(Used without permission)

I love Thee Jesus,
And Thy love to me
Draws me, ever to seek Thee
And run after Thee
Draws me ever to seek Thee
And run after Thee

Thou art beloved;
Yea! Altogether lovely
The One in whom my heart delighteth

Thy love, Lord Jesus
Is sweeter than wine,
And thy fragrance of ointments
My heart doth intwine.
And thy fragrance of ointments
My heart doth intwine

A fount in gardens,
A well of living waters,
Which streams and flows from Lebanon's mountains.

O come Beloved,
On my garden blow
That the the odor of spices
May break forth and flow
That the odor os spices
May break forth and flow

My spouse, My sister
I'm come into My garden
To feast upon wine, milk and honey.

I'll take that as a 'no.'