"The core of common culture is religion. Tribes survive and flourish because they have gods, who fuse many wills into a single will, and demand and reward the sacrifices on which social life depends." ~ Roger Scruton.
How does this assertion sit with the Ghost of a Duke Doctrine about how groups of humans survive through the evolution of morality and communal governance?
04 Mar 20
2 edits
@fmf saidIf you believe some people they will have you accept that we as a species, as a world are abandoned by God. I can live with that in principle because at least it means there is a God!
"The core of common culture is religion. Tribes survive and flourish because they have gods, who fuse many wills into a single will, and demand and reward the sacrifices on which social life depends." ~ Roger Scruton.
How does this assertion sit with the Ghost of a Duke Doctrine about how groups of humans survive through the evolution of morality and communal governance?
However and for contrast; Steve Jobs co-founder and ex COE of Apple (in case someone doesn’t know the name) struggled all his life with a sense of abandonment by his birth parents and yet arguably he achieved more in the commercial world than anyone. The pivot point being his own company abandoning him in 1985. Some would have been suicidal at that point and yet he returned, hailed by some as the Messiah, 11 years later and through vision and effort took Apple from being 90 days away from insolvency to the biggest company in the world in terms of income in 2011/12. Then he died. He wasn’t a very nice person by many accounts.
You don’t need to believe in a God in order to be successful or a person of poor attitudes and behaviours you can be an atheist and be horrible. But to have hope in the long-term survival of our species we need a God because even if we don’t screw it all up, the sun is going to get us anyway.
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04 Mar 20
@fmf saidHis assertion would require adaption (thusly)
"The core of common culture is religion. Tribes survive and flourish because they have gods, who fuse many wills into a single will, and demand and reward the sacrifices on which social life depends." ~ Roger Scruton.
How does this assertion sit with the Ghost of a Duke Doctrine about how groups of humans survive through the evolution of morality and communal governance?
"The core of common culture is cooperation. Tribes survive and flourish because they have shared morality and goals, which fuses many wills into a single will, on which social life depends."
04 Mar 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThis cooperation and the authority over the individuals invested in the community or tribe almost invariably manifested itself in Gods, religions, and codified 'rules' ~ often with a perceived supernatural angle. This gave collective will and the 'rules' their moral authority.
His assertion would require adaption (thusly)
"The core of common culture is cooperation. Tribes survive and flourish because they have shared morality and goals, which fuses many wills into a single will, on which social life depends."
How about that addition to your adaption?
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05 Mar 20
@fmf saidCooperation on its own is not enough. A 'community' needs a gel to hold them together, preferably one that elicits hope and alleviates fear.
This cooperation and the authority over the individuals invested in the community or tribe almost invariably manifested itself in Gods, religions, and codified 'rules' ~ often with a perceived supernatural angle. This gave collective will and the 'rules' their moral authority.
How about that addition to your adaption?
Religions do pretty well on both counts. Morality still stems from cooperation (and basic premises such as, 'you don't kill me and I won't kill you' etc) but is further cemented in the religions they have created.
05 Mar 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidCooperation is seen abundantly in the animal kingdom but does not
Cooperation on its own is not enough. A 'community' needs a gel to hold them together, preferably one that elicits hope and alleviates fear.
Religions do pretty well on both counts. Morality still stems from cooperation (and basic premises such as, 'you don't kill me and I won't kill you' etc) but is further cemented in the religions they have created.
produce any morality (that I have heard of). Morality is surely a personal
construct about based on experience and knowledge. Religion is rooted
in common morality then distorted to exert power and control of society.
05 Mar 20
@divegeester saidIf (IF) we are around in 4 billion years we will certainly be able to save ourselves.
But to have hope in the long-term survival of our species we need a God because even if we don’t screw it all up, the sun is going to get us anyway.
We do not need a god.
And even if we did it would not justify its existence.
05 Mar 20
@wolfgang59 saidIf we are around when the sun goes red giant we will not be able to save ourselves unless we have found a way of colonising beyond our solar system and that mean interstellar travel as a minimum. You cannot say with certainty that we will be able to save ourselves.
If (IF) we are around in 4 billion years we will certainly be able to save ourselves.
We do not need a god.
And even if we did it would not justify its existence.
If we did not need a God we would not have invented dozens of them. “Need is relative and circumspect.
How does a thing “justify its existence”?
How do you justify your existence?
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05 Mar 20
@wolfgang59 saidCooperation requires higher intelligence to bear the fruits of morality. (Only really seen in humans,...and perhaps hedgehogs).
Cooperation is seen abundantly in the animal kingdom but does not
produce any morality (that I have heard of). Morality is surely a personal
construct about based on experience and knowledge. Religion is rooted
in common morality then distorted to exert power and control of society.
05 Mar 20
1 edit
@fmf saidGod is the hypostatization of human goals. Belief in gods persists because this is a metaphor which speaks to mankind generally.
"The core of common culture is religion. Tribes survive and flourish because they have gods, who fuse many wills into a single will, and demand and reward the sacrifices on which social life depends." ~ Roger Scruton.
How does this assertion sit with the Ghost of a Duke Doctrine about how groups of humans survive through the evolution of morality and communal governance?