Originally posted by DeepThought
There's something in what you've posted I'm interested in. I started to get the impression of this in an exchange with sonship in another recent thread. Your case seems to be that all humans secretly know God exists, created the universe and so forth, and that this is a priori knowledge and that atheists are in denial of this?

No, my thesis is none of these religions actually came from some god or other, quite the opposite. I think everyone secretly knows it is wrong to screw your best friend's wife, don't kill, don't steal from your mom and all that, comes from mankind as a kind of common knowledge. Of course there are those who would give the finger to that morality and take what they want. Don't think THAT came from a god, that is strictly mankind.

Originally posted by sonhouse
No, my thesis is none of these religions actually came from some god or other, quite the opposite. I think everyone secretly knows it is wrong to screw your best friend's wife, don't kill, don't steal from your mom and all that, comes from mankind as a kind of common knowledge. Of course there are those who would give the finger to that morality and take what they want. Don't think THAT came from a god, that is strictly mankind.

yes but if the theists religion prevents him from engaging in these iniquities then surely it's more powerful than the atheists commitment to exclusive reliance on his own conscience or values? for will he not be following a faulty compass while the theist has lofty principles to guide his path and spare him the agony of pleasure spiked with pain?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but if the theists religion prevents him from engaging in these iniquities then surely it's more powerful than the atheists commitment to exclusive reliance on his own conscience or values?

I'm not so sure. A theist's religion does not always prevent him from engaging in immoral acts. To be honest, if someone says he won't rape someone because he read in a book that he shouldn't, I would have to place a question mark over his humanity. I don't see him citing a book as being "more powerful" than someone instinctively not wishing to commit rape on account of his humanity and innate and learned morality.

But if you, robbie, need instructions and prohibitions laid out in a religious book to prevent you from immoral actions, then so be it. I welcome your morally sound behaviour ~ if that is what it is ~ however you may have arrived at it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but if the theists religion prevents him from engaging in these iniquities then surely it's more powerful than the atheists commitment to exclusive reliance on his own conscience or values? for will he not be following a faulty compass while the theist has lofty principles to guide his path and spare him the agony of pleasure spiked with pain?

You seem to be treating the atheist as if he or she was a single entity locked up in a cave and having to come up with his or her own rules of behavior.

That is not the case and you know it. Atheists are just as sociable as any theist and that means they don't just live in a vacuum.

They do make up their own minds but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize not to hurt others, physically or emotionally.

It is well within the ability of regular non god fearing folks to figure out how to live without causing societal harm.

When was the last time YOUR god spoke to YOU personally? Didn't think so. You are one more of the billions of folks scammed by the biggest scam in human history.

Humans have invented their own moral codes all along, just imagining what a god would think would be a good thing for humans to follow.

The village shaman says, don't screw your buddy's wife. I DIDN"T SAY THAT, the sun god told me so in a vision. So don't just believe me, a mere human......

Originally posted by sonhouse
You seem to be treating the atheist as if he or she was a single entity locked up in a cave and having to come up with his or her own rules of behavior.

That is not the case and you know it. Atheists are just as sociable as any theist and that means they don't just live in a vacuum.

They do make up their own minds but you don't have to be a rocket sc ...[text shortened]... IDN"T SAY THAT, the sun god told me so in a vision. So don't just believe me, a mere human......

You are falling into fiction. I have not said that atheists live in a vacuum, what I have actually said is that the theist may have a moral imperative which prevents him from taking a certain course of action, like committing adultery. If the atheist or anyone else for that matter simply relies on conscience alone they may not be able to resist the temptation when it arises . why? because unlike the atheist the theist is not relying upon his own strength, but rather the strength he receives from adherence to other principles.

Originally posted by josephw
Ever wonder why the major religions have basically the same story of the origin of life?

I might be wondering it if it were true. It isn't.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]",..how come all the OTHER religions have similar morality rules?"

Ever wonder why the major religions have basically the same story of the origin of life? The knowledge of a creator was universally know by all civilizations from the beginning. The problem is is that the story takes on twists and turns as time goes by, but the fundamentals of moral ...[text shortened]... will first have to admit to yourself you need a saviour.

Do you want to die, or live forever?[/b]

Well, here is one such, a major religion by anyone's measure, Hinduism:

Here is there creation myth:

http://www.geni.com/projects/The-Hindu-Genesis-Origin-of-Life/3143

How close is that to the ones you were talking about?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
If the atheist or anyone else for that matter simply relies on conscience alone they may not be able to resist the temptation when it arises .

Theists, despite their conscience and religion, may not be able to resist the temptation when it arises too. Plenty of evidence that this is so.