Originally posted by Zahlanzi japanese kamikaze pilots suicided for their country. enough indoctrination and you can make a person do anything. religion is simply the easy way.
…japanese kamikaze pilots suicide for their country…
True. But many modern-day terrorists are motivated by religion and believe they will go to a better place (an afterlife) for what they perceive as their act of martyrdom. If they didn’t have this dilution of believing in an afterlife, wouldn’t those particular terrorists be less likely to be persuaded to commit suicide?
…enough indoctrination and you can make a person do anything…
I think it would be much harder to persuaded people to commit suicide ‘for their country’ but knowing that there would be no afterlife -what happened in Japan in WW2 as a result of a unique culture where it was considered extremely shameful by family and friends of the pilots to fail to “die for your country” and the pilots where very aware of this and didn’t want to “put shame on their family” by failing to die for their county. So, in the context of that culture, they could be easily emotionally blackmailed into committing suicide. But I doubt that you would find that attitude of it being “extremely shameful to fail to die for your country” quite to such the same extreme as in Japan in WW2 in most cultures in the modern world today.
I am not saying some people couldn’t be persuaded if they didn’t belief in an afterlife but I would say less of them would be persuaded if they didn’t belief in an afterlife.
Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton [b]…japanese kamikaze pilots suicide for their country…
True. But many modern-day terrorists are motivated by religion and believe they will go to a better place (an afterlife) for what they perceive as their act of martyrdom. If they didn’t have this dilution of believing in an afterlife, wouldn’t those particular terrorists be less likely to ...[text shortened]... afterlife but I would say less of them would be persuaded if they didn’t belief in an afterlife.[/b]
it is simply instilling the notion into suicides that their deaths mean something and they will get a reward. whether there are 72 virgins, (i would like to see where in the koran says there are 72 super model virgins, or even 72 female virgins) or the belief leading to and right befor death that they are helping defend the motherland and building a better future for their families, suicides can and will happen. religion is simply the easiest way to indoctrinate someone today.
you simply mentioned religion and an unique culture. there are more. heroism. an american soldier in the US army in WWII, with a family at home, jumps on a grenade or charges the enemy so that wounded soldiers have time to be evacuated. he wasn't even indoctrinated. he just believed his death had meaning.
Originally posted by Zahlanzi it is simply instilling the notion into suicides that their deaths mean something and they will get a reward. whether there are 72 virgins, (i would like to see where in the koran says there are 72 super model virgins, or even 72 female virgins) or the belief leading to and right befor death that they are helping defend the motherland and building a better ...[text shortened]... suicides can and will happen. religion is simply the easiest way to indoctrinate someone today.
Surely what you describe - is religion? You are basically agreeing that religion is a key ingredient to suicide attacks, but are trying pretend that it is not infact religion.
Originally posted by twhitehead Surely what you describe - is religion? You are basically agreeing that religion is a key ingredient to suicide attacks, but are trying pretend that it is not infact religion.
how are you convincing yourself that people keep supporting your point of view without even realizing it. i said that not only religion can drive a man to suicide to achieve a goal. heroism, patriotism, sacrifice, etc are all reasons why someone could be persuaded(by himself or others) to commit suicide.
how is a soldier jumping on a grenade to save his comrades in any way related to religion?
Originally posted by twhitehead Surely what you describe - is religion? You are basically agreeing that religion is a key ingredient to suicide attacks, but are trying pretend that it is not infact religion.
religion is one ingredient. and it is the key in muslim terrorist attacks. a nut going into a methodist church and using a machine gun on everyone there because the correct religion is catholicism might be considered religious(in tha latter case i say psychosis is a much more important factor)
Agnostic; a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known, is what the dictionary says and even though I don't agree with that, I think there's some things we can agree on.
Originally posted by daniel58 Agnostic; a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known, is what the dictionary says and even though I don't agree with that, I think there's some things we can agree on.
Response to Watchmaker Argument
05 Aug '08 08:022 edits
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