17 Sep 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeApproximately what date and what location are we talking about? And what language? And when was Satan invented?
According to Alan Montague of the Guardian, "It goes back to more superstitious times when a sneeze was believed to separate the soul from the body. To prevent the devil stealing the soul the incantation "bless you" (i.e. God bless you) was uttered to release the soul from Satan's clutches and return it to its rightful owner."
So, that's me, Da Vinci and Alan Montague of the Guardian. What more do you want sir, blood?
17 Sep 16
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadSince I'd heard that explanation before the Simpsons was a gleam in Matt Groening's eye, I don't think that that attribution is worth taking seriously. I don't believe the soul being sneezed out explanation, it sounds like the kind of thing people make up like the Magna Carta being sealed because King John couldn't write - not true, he was one of the best educated people in Europe. First as the son of a King one would expect a first class education and secondly as the forth son of a King he was originally expected to enter the Church and so was even more educated.
Yes, I wasn't disputing that it was one possible origin - but you will note that the references for that claim are not particularly good, in fact one of the references attributes the claim to The Simpsons. None of the references actually confirm that as the best explanation but only one of a number of possible explanations.
I took a look in Brewer's Phrase and Fable, it is not there, but what it says for blessing is:
Blessing. Among Greek and R.C. Ecclesiastics the thumb and first two fingers, representing the Trinity, are used in ceremonial blessing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. The thumb, being strong, represents the Father; the long, or second, finger [i.e. middle] Jesus Christ; and the first finger [i.e. index], the Holy Ghost, which proceedeth from the Father and the Son.So I'm going to speculate that the real reason is that when one sneezes one holds ones nose with those digits and to an onlooker it appears as if the sneezer is blessing themselves - hence "bless you". I think it's a joke rather than a spell.
https://archive.org/stream/brewersdictionar000544mbp#page/n123/mode/2up
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17 Sep 16
Originally posted by twhiteheadThere are lots of biblical references that talk to death as sleeping. If death is death then "resting" is an illogical adjective. I'm sure you would agree with that.
I would never have thought that it 'talks about resurrection from the dead'. Where do you get that implication from? It does imply life after death, but only vaguely so.
As for your claim that we tend to only use phrases that represent our world view, that is not the case at all. In fact many phrases that reference Christian concepts are very much in contradiction to Christian teachings.
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17 Sep 16
Originally posted by rwingettI have no idea what you mean by saying "God damn it"; this is the whole point of my OP. So what prompts you to say "God" damn it, when you are a rational atheist?
If I swear and say G•• D••• it!, do you really think I'm invoking a deity to condemn something to hell? It is an empty phrase that has been divorced from any meaning it may have once had.
"Rest in peace" may also be an empty phrase. Or it may have connotations quite different from what you assume. It could imply that the victim has been released from the perpetual turmoil of daily striving and yearning to rest in the eternal peace of death.
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17 Sep 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI haven't heard anyone say "bless you" when I've sneezed for years. I hear and read "RIP" all the time. Every month when someone socially familiar dies, the social network cries "REST IN PEACE".
I guess the same goes for 'bless you' when someone sneezes. (Which I believe goes back to the fear of the soul escaping, during the process of a sneeze).
Why?
17 Sep 16
Bless you because its the black plague and you'll soon be departed, says my son. When people bless me for sneezing I scowl and deny any demon infestation. When others sneeze I ignore it or sometimes say "besh". Its a quirk.
I think we should bless people when they fart. Clearly they are bloating from demon brimstone gases.
18 Sep 16
Originally posted by apathistNo, according to twhitehead's reference above the expression is mentioned by Pliny and goes back to at least 77 AD, it is not connected with bubonic plague.
Bless you because its the black plague and you'll soon be departed, says my son. When people bless me for sneezing I scowl and deny any demon infestation. When others sneeze I ignore it or sometimes say "besh". Its a quirk.
I think we should bless people when they fart. Clearly they are bloating from demon brimstone gases.
18 Sep 16
Originally posted by divegeesterThis is common on the internet because it is an easy reply for those who feel they must say something. RIP, [insert name of deceased].
I haven't heard anyone say "bless you" when I've sneezed for years. I hear and read "RIP" all the time. Every month when someone socially familiar dies, the social network cries "REST IN PEACE".
Why?
Three letters, the ultimate in quick and easy.