Richard Dawkins stumped!

Originally posted by vishvahetu
The spiritual energy is non material, and therefore cannot be put under a microscope and dissected, .... do you not know this.

How do you prove love, you cannot see it under a microscope!

The spiritual energy may be discerned by

1. insight
2 feelings
3. intelligence (sufficient)
4. by opening your eyes
5. spiritual teachings.

You cannot ...[text shortened]... against this) and thats why i am not religious, so please dont associate them with me.

vishva

No religious phenomena can be described in scientific formulas.
Not only things that can be seen under microscope can be dealt with with science, like quarks.

But spiritual energy isn't scientific energy, it is religious in its qualities.
If you believe in spiritual energy, then you are religious. Deny it, but your opinions shows your true personality. You are religious.

Get your definitions straight. Learn about science.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
No religious phenomena can be described in scientific formulas.
Not only things that can be seen under microscope can be dealt with with science, like quarks.

But spiritual energy isn't scientific energy, it is religious in its qualities.
If you believe in spiritual energy, then you are religious. Deny it, but your opinions shows your true personality. You are religious.

Get your definitions straight. Learn about science.

Spiritual energy has nothing to do with religion.

Religion is mans silly speculative attemp to exsplain god, and it is all about false beliefs.

I am not interested in false beliefs, and either are you.

Science cannot explain the spiritual, because it is always denying the spiritual, but the spiritual is what we are.

In your body is you, the spiritual being, and that has nothing to do with belief or religion.....it is just a fact.

The reason why you have life, memory, thinking, intelligence,feelings, emotions, love etc is because you are a spiritual being, and not a material one.

And if you want to do an experiment, then try and produce in your labratory for me 1 kg of intelligence, or 1 kg of love, or 1 kg of life, and when you have that 1 kg of life, i want you to put it into a test tube and create a new form of life.

And when you have made this new form of life, let me know.

It should be very easy, because if in the first instance, life created itself without a labratory and equipment, but you would find it very easy with all your facilities that you have at your disposal. good luck

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Religion means belief, and i dont have beliefs......so i am not religious.

What i do have is a correct understanding of how things are, and that is called spirituality.

Karma means; material activities, for which one incurs subsequent reaction.

So if you do a impious action, then you will reap a negative result, so how can i demonstrate this!

...[text shortened]... k and fright in the future.

Enjoy the experiment, and let me know how it turns out.

vishva

Down syndrome for what it's worth, is nothing to do with Karma. It's a chromosonal disorder caused by the presence of all or part of an extra 21st chromosome. Analogous effects have been found in chimpanzees and mice, are you telling me they suffer the effects of Karma also?

Religion means belief, and i dont have beliefs......so i am not religious.

Here's a definition of religion -

a set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#.5D

I would say you fit that. Therefore you are religious, you may not think you are, but you most definitely are.

What i do have is a correct understanding of how things are.

Really? I must have missed that bit.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
No religious phenomena can be described in scientific formulas.
Not only things that can be seen under microscope can be dealt with with science, like quarks.

But spiritual energy isn't scientific energy, it is religious in its qualities.
If you believe in spiritual energy, then you are religious. Deny it, but your opinions shows your true personality. You are religious.

Get your definitions straight. Learn about science.

Where there is any belief system, then it is a religion, and the christians and muslims and jews etc all believe in a god.

I dont believe in a god,....but i know theres a god (theres a difference)

The subject matter of religions people is god, and the subject matter of a spiritual person is god, so the subject is the same, but that doesnt mean the spiritual person is a religious person.

A religious person believes what is presented to them, by their local church, or parents, and they blindly accept without question any silly thing.

I do not do that, so i am not religious in that sense.

Because the atheist can recognize all the silly superstitions of the religious people, then they constantly argue with them, and the religious people really are asking for it, because much of their beliefs are erroneous.

On the other hand, i reject all those silly beliefs as you do, but i am putting forward the correct understanding of life/god, and what i present is the spiritual way, not the religious way.

I think you want to band me together with the religious people, so you can include me in your arguments, but i am also against there religious nonsense.

vishva

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Down syndrome for what it's worth, is nothing to do with Karma. It's a chromosonal disorder caused by the presence of all or part of an extra 21st chromosome. Analogous effects have been found in chimpanzees and mice, are you telling me they suffer the effects of Karma also?

[b]Religion means belief, and i dont have beliefs......so i am not religious. ...[text shortened]... ave is a correct understanding of how things are.

Really? I must have missed that bit.[/b]

Ok, the Down Syndrome is observed by the chromosone disorder, but what cause,s the disorder.....the cause is the karmic reaction.

The definition you gave is correct, but i do not fit it because...

I dont advocate a moral code.

I dont advocate rituals.

I dont advocate beliefs.

What i present is how things are, they are not beliefs

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I dont believe in a god,....but i know theres a god (theres a difference)

You can't have it both ways. If you know there is a god, then you are religious.
You surely live in a state of denial, don't you!

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Religion means belief, and i dont have beliefs......so i am not religious.

What i do have is a correct understanding of how things are, and that is called spirituality.

Karma means; material activities, for which one incurs subsequent reaction.

So if you do a impious action, then you will reap a negative result, so how can i demonstrate this!

...[text shortened]... k and fright in the future.

Enjoy the experiment, and let me know how it turns out.

vishva

You do have a belief, and that is in spiritual energy. Yet it is an unsubstantiated belief as you cannot provide tangible evidence for its existence.

You can't see potential energy and kinetic energy but there has been thousands of scientific experiments which prove their existence, and can be explained exactly what they are.

However, I could say that there is some mystical energy called hoffennerferderf energy which controls everything and is the basis behind how everything works. It is definitely is there because we observe the effects around you. You can't see it and you can't detect it under the microscope so you just have to trust me that it is there. I just cannot demonstrate it or prove it.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You can't have it both ways. If you know there is a god, then you are religious.
You surely live in a state of denial, don't you!

I am trying to let you see, that there is a difference in the two, can you not see the difference, is it not clear enough for your understanding.

Religions are belief systems, and belief systems can change like the weather, and a person can be a muslim one day, and a christain the next.

I present the fact that the spiritual being is eternal, and that cannot change, you cannot wake up in the morning and say i dont like that belief, i think i will accept that i am not eternal.

Or the supposed holy scripture can be changed, because it is just a belief, for example: the bible has instucted people since the beggining (thou shalt not kill) but now it says (thou shalt not murder) so you see, they didnt like that belief, and changed it.

What i present does not change because it is not a belief, it is the way things are in truth.

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I present the fact that the spiritual being is eternal, and that cannot change, you cannot wake up in the morning and say i dont like that belief, i think i will accept that i am not eternal.

Yes I can. In fact I just did.

What i present does not change because it is not a belief, it is the way things are in truth.
Or so you believe. But I believe otherwise. Your belief is not based on evidence, hence it is a religion. My belief is based on evidence, hence it is just common sense.

PS. I am still waiting for an explanation for why you accept the science of chemistry but reject the science of evolution.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yes I can. In fact I just did.

[b]What i present does not change because it is not a belief, it is the way things are in truth.
Or so you believe. But I believe otherwise. Your belief is not based on evidence, hence it is a religion. My belief is based on evidence, hence it is just common sense.

PS. I am still waiting for an explanation for why you accept the science of chemistry but reject the science of evolution.[/b]

Why should i reject chemistry, chemistry works, you mix up some chemicals, and bingo, you have plastisc.....and you can use it.

I reject evolution, because it is a fabricated atheistic assumption, of how life as we know it came to be.

And for the scientists who support it, they do so because they are exstemely blind, or they are exstremely deceitfull or they get a paycheck every week to teach it somewhere.

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Why should i reject chemistry, chemistry works, you mix up some chemicals, and bingo, you have plastisc.....and you can use it.

I reject evolution, because it is a fabricated atheistic assumption, of how life as we know it came to be.

And for the scientists who support it, they do so because they are exstemely blind, or they are exstremely deceitfull or they get a paycheck every week to teach it somewhere.

vishva

I reject evolution, because it is a fabricated atheistic assumption

For the last time you thicko, it's not an atheist assumption. How many times have i told you? To accept evolution doesn't mean you are an atheist, there are many Christian denominations who accept evolution, some of those members post on this forum.

What part of this do you not understand? Is it really that hard?

Please tell me.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I am trying to let you see, that there is a difference in the two, can you not see the difference, is it not clear enough for your understanding.

Religions are belief systems, and belief systems can change like the weather, and a person can be a muslim one day, and a christain the next.

I present the fact that the spiritual being is eternal, and tha ...[text shortened]... present does not change because it is not a belief, it is the way things are in truth.

vishva

Whenever you say something like "I am not religious" you use arguments that strengthen my opinion that you are religious.

Like "Religions are belief systems" and then you show us your beliefs, like "I present the fact that the spiritual being is eternal" which is utterly religious.
So when you prove to us that you are not religious, then what do you expect us to do? Laugh? Or bow to your wisedome?

You are religious. End of story. Period.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Why should i reject chemistry, chemistry works, you mix up some chemicals, and bingo, you have plastisc.....and you can use it.

Evolution works too.

So do you withdraw your earlier claim that your rejected evolution on the grounds that its proponents do not recognize the intelligence at work?

And for the scientists who support it, they do so because they are exstemely blind, or they are exstremely deceitfull or they get a paycheck every week to teach it somewhere.
I deny that I am blind, deceitful or receive any paycheck for my support.
What logic did you use to make that conclusion about me? Which of them do you still maintain about me? Are you able to substantiate the claim, or is it merely baseless slander?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
No, it cannnot. That's just a delusion.

If you still religion is a science - then prove scietifically that there exist a god. Can you furthemore prove that this god is the christian god, then I give you a gold star.

Science and religion cannot mix.

I still do not see why you insist on such a constrained view of religion. I'm not going to have this conversation again if the other side blatantly pushes their perspective of religion as the definition.

Originally posted by ua41
I still do not see why you insist on such a constrained view of religion. I'm not going to have this conversation again if the other side blatantly pushes their perspective of religion as the definition.

So what is your definition of religion?

Vishnu has certainly religious ideas. And he seems ashamed of them. Why doesn't he just admit that he is religious? It would geve credits to his opinions, as we have freedom of religion in the civilized part of the world.
But no, he talks about spiritual energies as it was science when it's in fact is not. He goes on saying that spiritua energies has nothing to do with religion.

And you ask me why I have "such a constrained view of religion"?