1. Standard memberblack beetle
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    28 Aug '08 16:05
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Well black bettle. I would not say too much more in the way of imagination. But I would say this, hopefully for your benefit:

    You don't understand what the [b]holiness
    of God is.

    Let me put it to you this way. If you and I have to answer to God for ONE sin ... we'll never make it.


    We need the Savior Jesus.[/b]
    I see your point jaywill but you cannot see mine; let it be!
  2. Standard memberWulebgr
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    28 Aug '08 16:06
    To be holy is to be set apart from the RHP forums, especially the cultural wasteland of "Spirituality".
  3. Joined
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    28 Aug '08 16:16
    Originally posted by black beetle
    I see your point jaywill but you cannot see mine; let it be!
    What is your point then ?
  4. Standard memberWulebgr
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    28 Aug '08 16:19
    Originally posted by jaywill
    What is your point then ?
    it seemeth clear to me.
  5. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    29 Aug '08 02:20
    Originally posted by whodey
    What? You think your better than flat earth creationists?
    Hey, man, we can work this out, it's all cool...we all have a piece of the Divine Puzzle...

    Maybe, like, the world is shaped like a pizza, so it's flat AND round! And God CREATED it, but then it evolved! Everyone's right!

    🙂
  6. Standard memberblack beetle
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    29 Aug '08 09:20
    Originally posted by jaywill
    What is your point then ?
    you asked:

    God: "What about your fornications, your thefts, your lies, your murders, your unthankfulness, your adulteries, your idols, your murmuring, your backbiting, your judging, your covenant breaking, your violence, your greed, your disobidience to parents, your prayerlessness, your blaphamies, your gossips, and all your sins ?"

    And now replies the Sinner (me, the miserable black beetle):
    -- "Well dear God, every fornication of mine was kinda good, but to be frank I had the best with my wife;
    and OK, I grabbed some nickel from my mom's purse and got me some ice creams while a kiddo but woe I failed to steal big time like the monarchs and the rich gentlemen your church was constantly backing up for 2.000 years and counting;
    and I lied coz I wanted to get a day-off or to avoid some girls so ugly that even a sailor would pretend that he 's dead drunk in order to get rid of 'em;
    well I did not kill nobody and that 's bad I reckon -millions of people for thousand years used to kill in your name but me;
    unthankful I constantly was for I always wanted to get paid for my work time;
    never was an adulterer and I know that you consider such a thing too bad -I remember in your book something about that guy you saved, Job, who went drunk and slept with his daughters after you turned his curious wife into salt;
    idols, hmmm, you mean somethin' like Madonna?
    And I really murmured a lot when I had debates -somethin' went wrong with me and I was kinda lookin' for a consensus instead of screamin' and shoutin' in your name;
    and surely I backbited those Belgian priests that they had a good time with them kiddos, sorry eh;
    and I could not stand still, yes, I was always judging the politicians coz I was stupid enough not to understand that they mobilize their army and kill heathen civilians in the name of your will, God;
    my covenant with OT, NT and the Bible was broken coz of me I reckon, you see I could not become a blind follower but I wanted to use my silly brain instead.
    Violence is an issue, I admit I was never violent in your name, I never set on fire even one unbeliever;
    and greedy I am indeed, as I was always dreaming of a world without religionists killing each other in your name;
    with my parents we remained friends till this very moment -I mean with my mother coz my father 's dead and I just kept him in my heart;
    regarding prayers I only now that if one leads a good life and goes to church when he 'll pass away he will go to Texas;
    blasphemous I surely was, but I disliked gossips, and I don't know what my other sins could be;
    So what my dear God?"

    And then I stood waiting for his/ your reaction. This is my point;
  7. Standard memberblack beetle
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    30 Aug '08 09:00
    ..and waiting...🙂
  8. Joined
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    30 Aug '08 10:565 edits
    Originally posted by black beetle
    you asked:

    God: "What about your fornications, your thefts, your lies, your murders, your unthankfulness, your adulteries, your idols, your murmuring, your backbiting, your judging, your covenant breaking, your violence, your greed, your disobidience to parents, your prayerlessness, your blaphamies, your gossips, and all your sins ?"

    And now repl dear God?"

    And then I stood waiting for his/ your reaction. This is my point;
    This was me using my imagination. I didn't think to pursue it that far. But if you think I should respond more, I'll give you my thoughts.

    ==========================================
    God: "What about your fornications, your thefts, your lies, your murders, your unthankfulness, your adulteries, your idols, your murmuring, your backbiting, your judging, your covenant breaking, your violence, your greed, your disobidience to parents, your prayerlessness, your blaphamies, your gossips, and all your sins ?"
    ==============================================


    First of all, this was spoken in a general sense. That is an indictment against man in general. It was not a suggestion that all people have done all of these things.

    You reply:

    ====================================
    And now replies the Sinner (me, the miserable black beetle):
    ========================================


    God is not interested in your groveling, in misery contrary to some skeptical opinions. God takes no delight in you feeling miserable. God is interested in your believing and being saved and changed into the image of Christ.

    ====================
    -- "Well dear God, every fornication of mine was kinda good, but to be frank I had the best with my wife;
    ==================================


    Clever answer. I don't want to get personal in this little imaginative excercise.

    ===========================================
    and OK, I grabbed some nickel from my mom's purse and got me some ice creams while a kiddo but woe I failed to steal big time like the monarchs and the rich gentlemen your church was constantly backing up for 2.000 years and counting;
    ===================================


    I don't know how old you are, but stealing a nickel from mom's purse sounds like a child. If you are an adult, by now, you probably have more sins than just that theft.

    Now to the church monarh. "Judgement begins at the house of God" says the Bible. So if you think that God should start with those who know better, don't think you just came up with an original idea.

    Did you miss the passage that "ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God?"

    I mean don't expect the Rev. So and So's sins down the street is going to complicate things for God and cause Him to grade on a slidding scale because you can saw "Well, at least I wasn't as bad as this so called Christian monarch over here."

    The suggestion is that if all those under a Christian banner of any kind had all been perfect than you would not have sinned.

    I wouldn't put any faith in that kind of reasoning. If you knew so much better how they were to behave then why didn't you follow Christ and show them how yourself?

    ===============================================
    and I lied coz I wanted to get a day-off or to avoid some girls so ugly that even a sailor would pretend that he 's dead drunk in order to get rid of 'em;
    well I did not kill nobody and that 's bad I reckon -millions of people for thousand years used to kill in your name but me;
    ========================================


    Another ploy. "If all Christians had been perfect than I would never have sinned."

    I think that in many cases God will say:

    "I was right. And you were wrong." But in some other cases God will say:

    "I was right. But you were right also. Some of my childen did sin. I dealt with them already at another judgment seat."

    By the way. Do you have numbers on how many people were fed, clothed, healed, guided, sheltered, aided, taken in, assisted, supported, loved, forgiven, housed, cured in the name of Jesus Christ?

    Did you keep track of those statistics with the same diligence?

    Or did you just gloat everytime you heard of some scandelous act under a Christian banner, assuming that that gave you more license to sin yourself with immunity?

    ========================================
    unthankful I constantly was for I always wanted to get paid for my work time;
    never was an adulterer and I know that you consider such a thing too bad -I remember in your book something about that guy you saved, Job, who went drunk and slept with his daughters after you turned his curious wife into salt;
    ===========================================


    I think you may be mistaking yourself for the person you want to be.

    I mean you just told us that your best act of fornication was with your wife. Maybe she could sense that you left part of your being in bed with other women in your past.

    The man was Lot and not Job.

    Lot's wife was saved from Sodom. But she became a pillar of salt - a monument of shame because of this:

    Even though she was physically removed from Sodom, her backward glance proved that her heart was still there. She did not perish. But she did get rebuked for not leaving Sodom in her heart.

    By the way, this was God teaching Christians how to live holy through and through. As Jesus said about the end times "Remember Lot's wife."

    Now you can't have it both ways pal. If you want God to teach His OWN children about living holy lives then you can't then turn around and criticize Him for leaving lessons there in the Bible for us.

    Which way do you want it?

    a. "God you did nothing about your own people's education."

    b. "God when you educated your people you were wrong to do so."


    Decide which slander you wish to use. Can't have it both ways.

    ======================================
    idols, hmmm, you mean somethin' like Madonna?
    =====================================


    Anything that becomes more important to you than God can become an idol.

    ========================================
    And I really murmured a lot when I had debates -somethin' went wrong with me and I was kinda lookin' for a consensus instead of screamin' and shoutin' in your name;
    =======================================


    Basically, your thrust is "At least I am not as bad as this other person over here."

    Well, the comparison is not against this other person over here. The comparison is against Christ.

    Now say you have a store for of glass jars. Say all of them have fallen on the floor and are broken. Some are broken in 100 pieces, some in 40 pieces, some in 20 pieces, some in 10 or 5 pieces. Then there are some broken in only 2 or 3 pieces.

    Now the ones broken in 2 or 3 pieces may say "Well, I'm not as bad off as that one over there broken in 20 pieces."

    The problem is that they are ALL broken. Being BROKEN in 2 or 3 pieces is not better than being broken in 100 pieces. They all are in need of repair.

    So it is with the sins of mankind. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

    You it is not simply that you and I have sinned. It is also that we were not glorious. Jesus was not just sinless. Jesus was gloriously pure.

    We need salvtion because we have sinned and because we have fallen short of the glory of God. Christ the Savior has not sinned and has expressed the glory of God.

    =======================================
    and surely I backbited those Belgian priests that they had a good time with them kiddos, sorry eh;
    and I could not stand still, yes, I was always judging the politicians coz I was stupid enough not to understand that they mobilize their army and kill heathen civilians in the name of your will, God;
    ===========================================


    More of, "At least I am not as bad as so and so ..."[/b]

    I would not put my trust in this kind of argument at all. I plan to say:

    "God I stand here before you clothed in the blood of Christ, my ONLY justification before you. Christ is my covering and on His merit I stand before you.

    Whether you like me or don't like me God, you are bound by your own righteousness to justify me for eternity because I trusted in your Son's death on the cross for the sins of the world."



    =====================================
    my covenant with OT, NT and the Bible was broken coz of me I reckon, you see I could not become a blind follower but I wanted to use my silly brain instead.
    ======================================


    "Blind followers" is your perception. Maybe because you don't follow and remain blind. So you think all who do follow remain blind as you presently are.

    It is possible that this is your projectiing.

    I think that is enough reply for one page. Better?
  9. Joined
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    30 Aug '08 11:096 edits
    =================================
    Violence is an issue, I admit I was never violent in your name, I never set on fire even one unbeliever;
    =========================================



    How do you know that your expressed unbelief did not cause 100 people to also disbelieve and perish?

    You're not God and don't know what effect your words and expressed opinions continued to work after they left you lips.

    You don't know what work your words did on other people.

    ====================================
    and greedy I am indeed, as I was always dreaming of a world without religionists killing each other in your name;
    ======================================


    Again, if you want to be historically objective, you should also have information on the positive things which happened in the name of Christ.

    Did you only take notice of things which would justify you to not believe? Do you act that way with other matters in life?

    There are plenty of lousy chess players. Did you refuse to learn chess because there are plenty of lousy chess players? How come the change in attitude when it came to the word of God?

    =====================================
    with my parents we remained friends till this very moment -I mean with my mother coz my father 's dead and I just kept him in my heart;
    =======================================


    That is wonderful.

    =======================================
    regarding prayers I only now that if one leads a good life and goes to church when he 'll pass away he will go to Texas;
    =====================================


    Somewhere in that I suppose there is humor.

    Either that or some concealed contempt for people in Texas. Do you have some clanish superiority feeling about people who live in the state of Texas?

    This crack was a little too subtle for me.

    =====================================
    blasphemous I surely was, but I disliked gossips, and I don't know what my other sins could be;
    So what my dear God?"
    ========================================


    Sure you dislike it.

    You dislike a lot of things, like people who steal nickels from thier moms.

    ========================================
    And then I stood waiting for his/ your reaction. This is my point;
    ========================================



    This in my response that you pressed me for. Don't take it as anyting else. You said I didn't get your point. I added this to show you that you communicated your points okay to me.
  10. Standard memberblack beetle
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    30 Aug '08 13:03
    Very Thanks for your prompt reply Jaywill; now I got your point too.
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