1. Standard memberDasa
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    22 Aug '11 21:04
    Srimad Bhagavatam 7:13:31

    According to the materialistic way of life, if a poor man, after laboring very, very hard, gets some material profit at the end of his life, he is considered a success, even though he again dies while suffering the threefold miseries--adhyatmika, adhidaivika and adhibhautika.

    No one can escape the threefold miseries of materialistic life, namely miseries pertaining to the body and mind, miseries pertaining to the difficulties imposed by society, community, nation and other living entities, and miseries inflicted upon us by natural disturbances from earthquakes, famines, droughts, floods, epidemics, and so on.

    If one works very hard, suffering the threefold miseries, and then is successful in getting some small benefit, what is the value of this benefit? Besides that, even if a karmi is successful in accumulating some material wealth, he still cannot enjoy it, for he must die in bereavement. I have even seen a dying man begging a medical attendant to increase his life by four years so that he could complete his material plans.

    Of course, the medical man was unsuccessful in expanding the life of the man, who therefore died in great bereavement. Everyone must die in this way, and after one's mental condition is taken into account by the laws of material nature, he is given another chance to fulfill his desires in a different body. Material plans for material happiness have no value, but under the spell of the illusory energy we consider them extremely valuable.

    There were many politicians, social reformers and philosophers who died very miserably, without deriving any practical value from their material plans. Therefore, a sane and sensible man never desires to work hard under the conditions of threefold miseries, only to die in disappointment.

    A sane human being must consider whether he will prepare to free himself from the evolutionary process by gaining knowledge of God, or whether he will travel again and again through the evolutionary process in higher and lower grades of life.

    The living entities have free will, and they are able to choose to either surrender to the Lord or to surrender to material nature. By surrendering to the Lord, one is happy and liberated, but by surrendering to material nature they continue to suffer.
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    22 Aug '11 21:08
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Srimad Bhagavatam 7:13:31

    According to the materialistic way of life, if a poor man, after laboring very, very hard, gets some material profit at the end of his life, he is considered a success, even though he again dies while suffering the threefold miseries--adhyatmika, adhidaivika and adhibhautika.

    No one can escape the threefold miseries of material ...[text shortened]... rd, one is happy and liberated, but by surrendering to material nature they continue to suffer.
    Meat.
  3. Donationrwingett
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    22 Aug '11 21:23
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Srimad Bhagavatam 7:13:31

    According to the materialistic way of life, if a poor man, after laboring very, very hard, gets some material profit at the end of his life, he is considered a success, even though he again dies while suffering the threefold miseries--adhyatmika, adhidaivika and adhibhautika.

    No one can escape the threefold miseries of material ...[text shortened]... rd, one is happy and liberated, but by surrendering to material nature they continue to suffer.
    The problem I see here is that your reward (whatever it actually is) is individualized and atomized. It happens only to you, independent of what happens to the rest of society. I don't think it is possible for a man to be truly free from misery, or have knowledge of god (whatever that may be), in a world where misery is the rule. Salvation (or its equivalents) is a social phenomenon. Individual salvation (or its equivalents) cannot be obtained in a fallen world. It can only be obtained through a collective transformation of society itself. Your approach encourages people to forgo social transformation in favor of an individualized concern for personal transformation. It may be that only people who have transformed themselves can successfully initiate the transformation of society, but it should be viewed as a mere beginning of the process and not the culmination of it.
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    22 Aug '11 22:19
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The problem I see here is that your reward (whatever it actually is) is individualized and atomized. It happens only to you, independent of what happens to the rest of society. I don't think it is possible for a man to be truly free from misery, or have knowledge of god (whatever that may be), in a world where misery is the rule. Salvation (or its equivalen ...[text shortened]... iety, but it should be viewed as a mere beginning of the process and not the culmination of it.
    This and this person's insistence that "God is in everyone" and therefore "everyone is God" is immediately suspect. Typical from the mouth of the serpent.

    I'd love to hear him attempt to actually replay to this, but I'm sure his reply will include just more running over everything you just said and just parroting his same nonsense.

    I'd have to say to you, though, that the leftist view is that yes, society is the end-all be-all. However, the Christian view does exert preference over the individual transformation, ideally, however, helped along by society, not killed by it, as now happens all too often.
  5. Standard memberDasa
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    22 Aug '11 23:19
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The problem I see here is that your reward (whatever it actually is) is individualized and atomized. It happens only to you, independent of what happens to the rest of society. I don't think it is possible for a man to be truly free from misery, or have knowledge of god (whatever that may be), in a world where misery is the rule. Salvation (or its equivalen ...[text shortened]... iety, but it should be viewed as a mere beginning of the process and not the culmination of it.
    Well said.....

    A few can make ten.

    A few groups of ten can make a hundred.

    A few hundred and more can turn into one thousand.

    This is the last age of this cosmic manifestation (Kali Yuga) and we will never see society as a whole become attracted to the spiritual living but the few who do will benefit greatly and return home back to Godhead.

    In past ages their was Vedic civilization and spiritual living by the whole society but by the influence of Kali Yuga everyone has become foolish and ignorant lead by atheistic leaders into animal life.

    As for the rest of mankind who ignore the spiritual life the cosmic manifestation shall be created again and again and all the bewildered souls shall get the opportunity time and time again to surrender to the Lord and finish their suffering for ever.
  6. Standard memberDasa
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    22 Aug '11 23:27
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    This and this person's insistence that "God is in everyone" and therefore "everyone is God" is immediately suspect. Typical from the mouth of the serpent.

    I'd love to hear him attempt to actually replay to this, but I'm sure his reply will include just more running over everything you just said and just parroting his same nonsense.

    I'd have to say to ...[text shortened]... eally, however, helped along by society, not killed by it, as now happens all too often.
    The Lord is in everyone's heart does not mean everyone is God.

    God is in every atom in his all pervading spiritual energy up holding the entire cosmos.

    This is his omnipresent potency. (you should know this.)

    God is God.

    One God and one religion.

    Your manipulation of my comments are dishonest.

    Typical of the animal killers religion inducing persons to be dishonest..
  7. Donationrwingett
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    23 Aug '11 02:20
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    This and this person's insistence that "God is in everyone" and therefore "everyone is God" is immediately suspect. Typical from the mouth of the serpent.

    I'd love to hear him attempt to actually replay to this, but I'm sure his reply will include just more running over everything you just said and just parroting his same nonsense.

    I'd have to say to ...[text shortened]... eally, however, helped along by society, not killed by it, as now happens all too often.
    My personal preference is to think of god as a metaphor. A theistic view of god (as a being who created the universe) is, in my opinion, no longer tenable. While such a view may have made sense to first century Palestinians, it is increasingly antiquated in the 21st century. The concept need not be totally abandoned, though. An update for a modern audience (a fuller, richer, more nuanced understanding of god?) may be sufficient to salvage the concept from obsolescence.

    The Christian concept of individual salvation, I think, is a post-Pauline concept. The first Christians primarily conceived of salvation in social terms. The kingdom was expected as an imminent transformation of the world. It was only after the kingdom failed to manifest itself was the concept of salvation was individualized, pushed into the distant future, and moved from the earth to some nebulous heavenly realm.
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    23 Aug '11 02:28
    Originally posted by rwingett
    My personal preference is to think of god as a metaphor. A theistic view of god (as a being who created the universe) is, in my opinion, no longer tenable. While such a view may have made sense to first century Palestinians, it is increasingly antiquated in the 21st century. The concept need not be totally abandoned, though. An update for a modern audience ...[text shortened]... lized, pushed into the distant future, and moved from the earth to some nebulous heavenly realm.
    You're out of touch with reality. I have no doubt you make this up as you go along.

    1st century or last, it's all the same. We're the same as they were five thousand years ago. You haven't discovered anything knew to say or think about that wasn't thought of before. Except for some science, man is no different than he ever was.

    You still need the saviour.
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    23 Aug '11 03:32
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Srimad Bhagavatam 7:13:31

    According to the materialistic way of life, if a poor man, after laboring very, very hard, gets some material profit at the end of his life, he is considered a success, even though he again dies while suffering the threefold miseries--adhyatmika, adhidaivika and adhibhautika.

    No one can escape the threefold miseries of material ...[text shortened]... rd, one is happy and liberated, but by surrendering to material nature they continue to suffer.
    interesting concept, but you cannot free yourself from one thing by enslaving yourself to something else. true freedom comes from a complete lack of beliefs and only a complete lack of beliefs leads to true knowledge. with true knowledge is gained the knowledge of the true self and with this knowledge you have power over your own destiny.
  10. Standard memberDasa
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    23 Aug '11 03:48
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    interesting concept, but you cannot free yourself from one thing by enslaving yourself to something else. true freedom comes from a complete lack of beliefs and only a complete lack of beliefs leads to true knowledge. with true knowledge is gained the knowledge of the true self and with this knowledge you have power over your own destiny.
    Could you please share this true knowledge with us all.

    I for one shall listen intently.
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    23 Aug '11 04:25
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Could you please share this true knowledge with us all.

    I for one shall listen intently.
    it cannot be shared, you have to release the chains on your soul by shedding all your beliefs. if a ritual you require, write them down on a piece of paper, crumble it up and burn it. once you shed your beliefs, you become the master of your mind, rather than a slave of your beliefs. enter the void and knowledge will come to you.
  12. Standard memberDasa
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    23 Aug '11 05:01
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    it cannot be shared, you have to release the chains on your soul by shedding all your beliefs. if a ritual you require, write them down on a piece of paper, crumble it up and burn it. once you shed your beliefs, you become the master of your mind, rather than a slave of your beliefs. enter the void and knowledge will come to you.
    And what is this knowledge telling you?
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    23 Aug '11 06:03
    Originally posted by Dasa
    And what is this knowledge telling you?
    It is telling me he has little of it.
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    23 Aug '11 06:13
    Originally posted by Dasa
    And what is this knowledge telling you?
    right now, it's telling me that you are afraid to face the truth.
  15. Donationrwingett
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    23 Aug '11 11:13
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    This and this person's insistence that "God is in everyone" and therefore "everyone is God" is immediately suspect. Typical from the mouth of the serpent.
    The gnostics had the notion that we (or a select few) had a spark of the divine within us that had been cut off from the divine whole at the creation of the material world. The object was to become aware of this true divine spark within us, transcend the limitations of the physical body, and to reconnect with the divine wholeness. It sounds similar in many respects to what Dasa is continually prattling on about.
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