1. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    18 Feb '08 22:41
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7251557.stm

    It seems the Catholic Church has decided to slow down the process toward sainthood by applying more rigorous standards. Some had suggested the Church had become a "saint factory", with huge numbers of saints being cranked out. It seems that Pope John Paul II had beatified more people than all his predecessors put together, with 1,338 beatified and 482 canonized.

    I recall arguing this exact point with RHP's self-appointed Papal representative a while ago, and now it seems that I, an atheist, was right! The reckless pace at which John Paul II churned out saints has indeed become a point of embarrassment for the Church. That pontifical madman had debased the institution of sainthood to such a degree that it seemed almost anyone could become a saint. But Pope Ratzi has saved the day by reducing the flow of new saints to a more respectable trickle. Of course that hasn't stopped him from rushing John Paul II through the express lane, even as people like Oscar Romero get put on hold.
  2. Joined
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    18 Feb '08 23:20
    Originally posted by rwingett
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7251557.stm

    It seems the Catholic Church has decided to slow down the process toward sainthood by applying more rigorous standards. Some had suggested the Church had become a "saint factory", with huge numbers of saints being cranked out. It seems that Pope John Paul II had beatified more people than all his predecessors ...[text shortened]... ing John Paul II through the express lane, even as people like Oscar Romero get put on hold.
    According to Catholic sources, the new norms established for the process of canonisation deal largely with how diocesan bishops nominate a person for sainthood. Cardinal Martins, responsible for the causes of saints, explains,

    Cardinal Martins also explained the need for the publication of the document. “In some dioceses, certain provisions of the law have not always been understood and, consequently, not been put into practice with the necessary meticulousness, which has sometimes made it necessary for the congregation to supply clarifications or to ask diocesan curias to correct errors.”

    He continued, “dioceses do not always have access to specialized individuals with practical experience of the various procedures involved in a cause of canonization.” For this reason, “it is evident that a practical document, such as this Instruction, was useful, indeed necessary.

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=11812

    Ordinarily, the local bishop considers a recently deceased person and then nominates them for sainthood. However, due to poor levels of competency, the bishops have often failed to ensure that all requirements of candidacy were satisfied. Consequently, the Vatican has been deluged with many requests to investigate the cause for sainthood, far beyond their capacity.

    The intention, therefore, is not to reduce the number of saints canonised by popes, but to reduce the number of people proposed to the Vatican. The new instructions should not affect those whose cause has already reached the Vatican.

    (And Pope John Paul is no further in the process than Oscar Romero. Romero has been declared A Servant of God and beatification is impending. JPII had also promised to beatify Romero, but died before that could happen. It is also noteworthy that others must wait even longer before they become saints. St. Thomas Aquinas had to wait some fifty years, and he is regarded as one of the great.)
  3. Joined
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    18 Feb '08 23:40
    Originally posted by rwingett
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7251557.stm

    It seems the Catholic Church has decided to slow down the process toward sainthood by applying more rigorous standards. Some had suggested the Church had become a "saint factory", with huge numbers of saints being cranked out. It seems that Pope John Paul II had beatified more people than all his predecessors ...[text shortened]... ing John Paul II through the express lane, even as people like Oscar Romero get put on hold.
    It's absurd that the pope should make saints in the first place. Every person that ever accepted Christ as their saviour becomes a saint at the moment of conversion automatically.
  4. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    19 Feb '08 00:01
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    According to Catholic sources, the new norms established for the process of canonisation deal largely with how diocesan bishops nominate a person for sainthood. Cardinal Martins, responsible for the causes of saints, explains,

    [quote]Cardinal Martins also explained the need for the publication of the document. “In some dioceses, certain provisio ...[text shortened]... aints. St. Thomas Aquinas had to wait some fifty years, and he is regarded as one of the great.)
    Just listen to my good buddy josephw, he knows what he's talking about. Your saints are absurd! And John Paul II made so many of them that we're practically up to our ears in absurd saints.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    19 Feb '08 00:07
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Just listen to my good buddy josephw, he knows what he's talking about. Your saints are absurd! And John Paul II made so many of them that we're practically up to our ears in absurd saints.
    According to your good buddy josephw, he's a saint. Talk about absurd!
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    19 Feb '08 01:17
    Originally posted by josephw
    It's absurd that the pope should make saints in the first place. Every person that ever accepted Christ as their saviour becomes a saint at the moment of conversion automatically.
    But do they die for Jesus, perform miracles or prophesy WWII?
  7. Cape Town
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    19 Feb '08 07:30
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    But do they die for Jesus, perform miracles or prophesy WWII?
    1. Die for Jesus? Does Jesus really want you dead?
    2. Do saints perform miracles or does God do it for them? Why? As a way of letting everybody know who he wants as saints?
    3. I could prophesy WWIII if you like?
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    20 Feb '08 14:29
    Originally posted by rwingett
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7251557.stm

    It seems the Catholic Church has decided to slow down the process toward sainthood by applying more rigorous standards. Some had suggested the Church had become a "saint factory", with huge numbers of saints being cranked out. It seems that Pope John Paul II had beatified more people than all his predecessors ...[text shortened]... ing John Paul II through the express lane, even as people like Oscar Romero get put on hold.
    Just another example of putting religion in front of the Lord IMO
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    20 Feb '08 14:53
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    1. Die for Jesus? Does Jesus really want you dead?
    2. Do saints perform miracles or does God do it for them? Why? As a way of letting everybody know who he wants as saints?
    3. I could prophesy WWIII if you like?
    1. No; but over centuries, there have been Christians persecuted for their belief in Christ and who have died rather than renounce their faith. People generally express this more economically to say, "they died for Jesus."
    2. The source of the miracle is God, but the saint is supposed to be the medium - the one who directs it whether to heal or cleave boulders or experience the stigmata.
    3. Hardly a prophesy. But, according to the Catholic Church, WWII was prophesied by Lucia Santos, Jacinta and Francisco Marto - one of whom is now a saint.

    My point intended was that the Catholic Church uses the term "saint" to designate a specific class of people who enjoy a unique relationship with God; they perform miracles, prophesy or show heoric devotion to their faith even when faced with persecution. Josephw uses the term broadly to mean all the faithful Christians; the Catholic Church uses the term in a narrower sense.
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    20 Feb '08 16:131 edit
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    1. No; but over centuries, there have been Christians persecuted for their belief in Christ and who have died rather than renounce their faith. People generally express this more economically to say, "they died for Jesus."
    2. The source of the miracle is God, but the saint is supposed to be the medium - the one who directs it whether to heal or cleave bou to mean all the faithful Christians; the Catholic Church uses the term in a narrower sense.
    Have there been any miracles performed lately? Was there one where some girls saw a vision of the Virgin Mary or someone?

    edit: oh and a saint would have to be a practising Catholic wouldn't they?
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