1. Subscriberduecer
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    28 Aug '09 19:08
    As Ephesians 2:8–9 says, "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith. It is not from yourself or anything you've done, but the gift of God." Salvation, therefore, is a free gift of grace from God.
  2. Subscriberduecer
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    28 Aug '09 19:36
    bump for galveston
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    28 Aug '09 21:00
    why don't you get yourself a decent translation Deucer dude, grace is so like 16th century.

    (Ephesians 2:8-9) . . .By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith; and this not owing to you, it is God’s gift.  No, it is not owing to works, in order that no man should have ground for boasting. . .

    naturally we also have the words of the Apostle James which clearly shows the correlation between faith and works in that while it is true, the gift of life is undeserved, a faith without works is like a body without animation, dead!

    (James 2:24-26) . . .you see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone.  In the same manner was not also Rahab the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way?  Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

    🙂
  4. Subscriberduecer
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    28 Aug '09 21:141 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why don't you get yourself a decent translation Deucer dude, grace is so like 16th century.

    (Ephesians 2:8-9) . . .By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith; and this not owing to you, it is God’s gift.  No, it is not owing to works, in order that no man should have ground for boasting. . .

    naturally we also have th ...[text shortened]... er way?  Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

    🙂
    works are the outward sign of our inward salvation. If I was a whoremonger yet I preached the word door to door I could not be saved.

    edit: I like the word Grace, its elegant
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    28 Aug '09 21:34
    Originally posted by duecer
    works are the outward sign of our inward salvation. If I was a whoremonger yet I preached the word door to door I could not be saved.

    edit: I like the word Grace, its elegant
    works are the outward sign of our inward salvation ?

    that sounds like a mystical statement of the type that Jaywill may make. inward salvation? what is that?
  6. Subscriberduecer
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    28 Aug '09 22:05
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    works are the outward sign of our inward salvation ?

    that sounds like a mystical statement of the type that Jaywill may make. inward salvation? what is that?
    it is the change we experience when embracing our savior.

    are you seriously suggesting that someone can do good works and cancel out all the bad stuff they do? what if someone doesn't believe, yet for kicks they go to door teaching people? will they be saved. no I think not. Salvation is based on faith. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" John 3:16
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    28 Aug '09 22:21
    Originally posted by duecer
    it is the change we experience when embracing our savior.

    are you seriously suggesting that someone can do good works and cancel out all the bad stuff they do? what if someone doesn't believe, yet for kicks they go to door teaching people? will they be saved. no I think not. Salvation is based on faith. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only beg ...[text shortened]... son that whosever [b] believes
    in him shall not perish but have eternal life" John 3:16[/b]
    the change we experience when embracing our saviour? mmm, that kind of sounds like the mingling of Gods spirit (Jesus), (which i have shown is erroneous, but for the sake of argument we shall allow it), and mans spirit, which our friend Jaywill is so fond of quoting.

    we profess something similar although the details I think are much better defined. me say that the operation of Gods Holy spirit or active force, works in harmony with a persons mind and heart (the inner man, the seat of motivation), and this force actuating upon the mind, (the force itself, coupled with study of the Bible, a product of Holy spirit) percolates into the heart and motivates the person to strip off the old personality and put on the knew. it is a complete transformation, or metamorphosis I think the Greek word is, and is liked to a caterpillar becoming a chrysalis and then a butterfly, wholly unrecognisable from that which went before.

    No amount of good words can justify wrong action. We must be quite clear about this, simply because someone is outwardly pious and engages in kind acts, or preaching from house to house or whatever, does not in any manner or form justify a sinful course.
  8. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    29 Aug '09 03:40
    Originally posted by duecer
    works are the outward sign of our inward salvation. If I was a whoremonger yet I preached the word door to door I could not be saved.

    edit: I like the word Grace, its elegant
    You are claiming that whoremongering is not a sin compatible with being saved.

    Are any sins compatible with being saved, or are all saved people completely without sin?
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    29 Aug '09 06:33
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    works are the outward sign of our inward salvation ?

    that sounds like a mystical statement of the type that Jaywill may make. inward salvation? what is that?
    If you do not understand that, I doubt you'll grasp it at all.
    Kelly
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    29 Aug '09 07:10
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    we profess something similar although the details I think are much better defined.
    could I ask who "we" is please robbie?
  11. Subscriberduecer
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    29 Aug '09 11:50
    Originally posted by divegeester
    could I ask who "we" is please robbie?
    Jehovah's Witness.
  12. Subscriberduecer
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    29 Aug '09 11:51
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    the change we experience when embracing our saviour? mmm, that kind of sounds like the mingling of Gods spirit (Jesus), (which i have shown is erroneous, but for the sake of argument we shall allow it), and mans spirit, which our friend Jaywill is so fond of quoting.

    we profess something similar although the details I think are much better define ...[text shortened]... eaching from house to house or whatever, does not in any manner or form justify a sinful course.
    you say tomayto I say tomato
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    29 Aug '09 11:57
    Originally posted by divegeester
    could I ask who "we" is please robbie?
    Me and Gavelstone the illustrious Texan!
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    29 Aug '09 12:03
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    If you do not understand that, I doubt you'll grasp it at all.
    Kelly
    and that is why i have asked for an explanation, for it seems to me, that the language may indeed cloak the actual meaning, for as you are aware, words are cumbersome entities for explaining the essence of an idea. As it is, I think that my understanding is firmly rooted in scripture and not on some type of esoteric personal experience.
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    29 Aug '09 13:071 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    and that is why i have asked for an explanation, for it seems to me, that the language may indeed cloak the actual meaning, for as you are aware, words are cumbersome entities for explaining the essence of an idea. As it is, I think that my understanding is firmly rooted in scripture and not on some type of esoteric personal experience.
    You do get no doubt that once saved you'll end up doing works, the
    reason the works doesn't save you is because it is a byproduct of
    your salvation, not the cause of it. If you stress works for salvation you
    are puttiing the cart before the horse, you are saying God now owes
    you salvation, which He does not it is a gift of God you cannot earn.
    Kelly
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