Science and God

Originally posted by Great King Rat
That surprises me. Isn't having "faith" the most important aspect of Christianity (and possibly most other religions)? The fact that there is no evidence for god but that god expects you to have faith without evidence?

Once god is proved, wouldn't the "faith" aspect disappear?You no longer believe, you know.

Which would be a VERY good thing but it wouldn't change anything. This god would simply be ignored or called a devil.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
That surprises me. Isn't having "faith" the most important aspect of Christianity (and possibly most other religions)? The fact that there is no evidence for god but that god expects you to have faith without evidence?

Once god is proved, wouldn't the "faith" aspect disappear?You no longer believe, you know.

This is another misconception about Christianity.

Christians have not divorced their minds and do look at evidence. It is like a court of law. You sit there and decide if the "evidence" is sufficient for a verdict. This evidence is then shared via our testimonies.

Again, the Bible is full of stories where man has known that God exists. You have Adam and Eve who walked with him and talked with him in the garden, then they rejected him. You have the Children of Israel who saw the plagues fall on Egypt and the Red Sea parted by the finger of God, and saw manna fall from heaven, but then built a god of gold to worship in his stead.

The issue here is faith in God, not the knowledge of his existence just like our ability or inability to put faith in those around us.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
That surprises me. Isn't having "faith" the most important aspect of Christianity (and possibly most other religions)? The fact that there is no evidence for god but that god expects you to have faith without evidence?

Once god is proved, wouldn't the "faith" aspect disappear?You no longer believe, you know.

Nicely said. Faith would disappear. This is why Paul goes to great lengths [1 Cor 13] to explain why Love / Charity is the greater than Faith and Hope.

Christians do not want to believe this because they think that their faith alone will save them. James asked this rhetorical question :

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jesus Christ in the great Sermon on the Mount [Matt Chapters 5, 6 & 7] spoke to the multitude about how to get eternal life and it was 99% about Love, Charity, and good works. I dont think Christ even mention the word Faith during that sermon.

Originally posted by whodey
I would agree, God wants his Son to be revealed to the world now and has done so, however, the question still persists. Who is this man called Jesus? The Muslims say just a prophet, the JW's say the Son of God but not apart of the Trinity, the Mormons think he is just one of many gods etc.

In the end, the Father reveals to whom he desires, just like he did to Peter.

"In the end, the Father reveals to whom he desires, just like he did to Peter." -whodey

Please clarify the meaning you intend or attach to the exclusionary phrase "reveals to whom" in context. Thanks.

I think God is sufficiently evidenced already. And the evidence, if not proof, is growing stronger not weaker as science advances.

I am not sure it does anything to the scientific method as more and more evidence for God accumulates. Why should it?

As far as change is concerned, I think knowing God and being changed go together.

Show me a person who has no intention of being changed in any way by an encounter with God and I'll show you a person who does not want to know God ever.

Conversely, show me a person who has not known God and I'll show you a person who has never really changed.

Originally posted by Rajk999

Christians do not want to believe this because they think that their faith alone will save them. James asked this rhetorical question :

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jesus Christ in the great Sermon on the Mount [Matt Chapters 5, 6 & 7] spoke to the multitude about how to get eternal life and it was 99% about Love, Charity, and good works. I dont think Christ even mention the word Faith during that sermon.

Where in Matthew 5,6,7 is the mention explicitly of eternal life ?

Chapter 5 has 48 verses.
Chapter 6 has 34 verses.
Chapter 7 has 29 verses.

Which of these total 111 verses mentions "eternal life" or "everlasting life" ?

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] Christians do not want to believe this because they think that their faith alone will save them. James asked this rhetorical question :

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jesus Christ in the great Sermon on the Mount [Matt Chapters 5, 6 & 7] spoke to the multitude ...[text shortened]...
Which of these total 111 verses mentions [b]"eternal life" or "everlasting life" ?[/b]

You are a deceitful and dangerous Bible twister and a preachers of false doctrines. So if you cannot see where Christ says that, I would be quite contented to let you remain in your ignorance. Further you already stated that Christ did not preach that Sermon to anyone but his disciples so you are not interested in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I will leave you with this:

Matt 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, ..

So if you do not do these things stated in the Sermon on the Mount, then Christ says you are a foolish man.

Originally posted by whodey
For the sake of argument, if God were to be proven, would it change science in any way?

Would it even change you?

You have a lot going on for two questions, less than 25 words total!

if God were to be proven...
Yet He already has been proven in the hearts and minds of believers.
Perhaps another way to frame it would be "when God is revealed on a universally obvious scale, in such a way that none deny His existence..."

...would it change science in any way?
Modern scienceReveal Hidden Contentwas created for the express purpose of discovering more of God via His creation.
It was considered a second-rate field, as the more 'serious minded' scholars were students of that queen of sciences, theology.
It eventually supplanted theology and branched into myriad disciplines, making theology today seem somehow antiquated and (for lack of a better word) quaint.

But would it change the actual charter of science, would it change our approach and/or emphasis to something different than it is currently?
Hard to say, but I'm inclined to think it would.
As much as we have progressed in understanding the world around us--- both without and within--- serious students tell us how little we know, how far we have to go.
But no matter what the field of interest, would you rather labor for years in the attempt to fill a thimble with the knowledge gained... or have the details, the execution, the principles revealed to you from the Person who created the phenomena in the first place?
It's like being in Santa's workshop: those toys are mega-cool to play with, but I'd rather watch the toy maker in action.

Would it even change you?
If a person can be changed by absolute elation, I guess I would be!

You are a deceitful and dangerous Bible twister and a preachers of false doctrines.

Simply answer the question please.
Which verse mentions "eternal life" in Matthew 5 through 7?

So if you cannot see where Christ says that, I would be quite contented to let you remain in your ignorance.

Instead of second guessing my motive you could simply answer the question.

Further you already stated that Christ did not preach that Sermon to anyone but his disciples so you are not interested in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I have not yet seen which verse mentions explicitly eternal life in Matthew 5 through 7.

I will leave you with this:

Matt 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, ..

Where is eternal life explicitly mentioned in chapter 7:26 ?

So if you do not do these things stated in the Sermon on the Mount, then Christ says you are a foolish man.

I agree.
But that is not the issue at the moment.

Jesus can teach many things without explicitly mentioning the phrase "eternal life". I don't think "eternal life" is mentioned in Matthew until chapter 19.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You have a lot going on for two questions, less than 25 words total!

[b]if God were to be proven...
Yet He already has been proven in the hearts and minds of believers.
Perhaps another way to frame it would be "when God is revealed on a universally obvious scale, in such a way that none deny His existence..."

...would it change scienc ...[text shortened]... uld it even change you?
If a person can be changed by absolute elation, I guess I would be![/b]

if God were to be proven..
Yet He already has been proven in the hearts and minds of believers.

proven? are you suggesting that feeling something is proof???

To know God personally and subjectively will lead to a person being changed.
Anyone who doesn't want to be changed surely doesn't want God.
Better stay away.

Some will say " But I do not need to be changed ! "

Look at you.
Then look at Jesus Christ.

You need to be changed, God says.

This change will not be so drastic and all at once that you are somehow damaged or annihilated in the change. God is very patient and longsuffering with great love and great mercy.

But knowing God will lead to us being transformed because He and we are incompatible. And He doesn't change. So since the fall of man, He has to change us.

Its not that bad. Not bad at all. It is liberating and even ultimately glorious. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]if God were to be proven..
Yet He already has been proven in the hearts and minds of believers.

proven? are you suggesting that feeling something is proof???[/b]

Although feeling cannot be wholly discounted, proof lies in thought.
For the believer, there is a threshold of sufficiency which convinces them--- not only of God's existence, but of His provision.

Originally posted by sonship

You are a deceitful and dangerous Bible twister and a preachers of false doctrines.

Simply answer the question please.
Which verse mentions [b]"eternal life" in Matthew 5 through 7?

So if you cannot see where Christ says that, I would be quite contented to let you remain in your ignorance.

Instead of second ...[text shortened]... ternal life"[/b]. I don't think "eternal life" is mentioned in Matthew until chapter 19.[/b]

Well I guess then the only explicit statement from Christ is that you are a foolish man.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Although feeling cannot be wholly discounted, proof lies in thought.
For the believer, there is a threshold of sufficiency which convinces them--- not only of God's existence, but of His provision.

is being convinced by your thoughts and feelings proof of gods existence?

Well I guess then the only explicit statement from Christ is that you are a foolish man.

I absolutely agree that to not build the house on the rock of His teachings is like the foolish man.

Of course that would be ALL of His teachings. Not simply words found in your favorite chapters.