Originally posted by Andrew Hamiltonabiogenesis is NOT evolution
“...The two biggest mistakes in science are:
1. All the species evolved from a random accident ...”
Not sure what you are saying here: evolved from which “random accident”? Are you referring to abiogenesis? If so, remember, abiogenesis is NOT evolution. Or are you trying to say that evolution is just a series of accidents? If so, natural sele ...[text shortened]... nd what have you got against “sense gratification” anyway? Are you against any form of fun? ).
it amounts to the same thing though in spiritual terms, a purely materialistic view of the emergence and diversification of life.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie"it amounts to the same thing though in spiritual terms"
abiogenesis is NOT evolution
it amounts to the same thing though in spiritual terms, a purely materialistic view of the emergence and diversification of life.
This little phrase says it all. If they redefine things in order to be right, and get a point in heaven, they can very well do so. But (1) it isn't honest, and (2) it doesn't make it truer.
I have introduced the concept of "religious truths", meaning that what is correct in science doesn't need to be correct in spiritual terms. If they want to think that evolution, big bang, abiogenesis, and whatever, is the same thing, they are religiously correct. As long as they acknowledge this themselves. If not, they are simply wrong.
This thinking, that something can be true even if it is not scientific true, is called "double truth" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_truth), and resembles my concept of "religiously true".
See especially this passage about "Views in other Christian sects":
"Other Christian sects, especially Fundamentalists, go to the other extreme, and urge their followers to reject any science that conflicts with the literal interpretation of scripture. In their view, real scientific evidence always supports the Bible, and scientists only hold beliefs contrary to the Bible because of evidence, and because scientists desire to find a reason instead of God, in order to continue their sinful life styles."
Robbie, if you want to be scientifically correct, then you have to differ evolution and abiogenesis from eachother. Spiritually, you can invent whatever you like, but in real life, there is a difference.
Originally posted by FabianFnasthis is the spirituality forum, where we discuss things of a spiritual nature, i have redefined nothing, are you claiming that my view is incorrect, that they do not amount to a materialistic view of the emergence and diversification of life? Did i not acknowledge the distinction in purely scientific terms? well then, get spiritual!
"it amounts to the same thing though in spiritual terms"
This little phrase says it all. If they redefine things in order to be right, and get a point in heaven, they can very well do so. But (1) it isn't honest, and (2) it doesn't make it truer.
I have introduced the concept of "religious truths", meaning that what is correct in science doesn't ne ...[text shortened]... iritually, you can invent whatever you like, but in real life, there is a difference.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieEvolution is a scientific word. Yet you want to redefine it? Why? So you can say "Evolutionists doesn't even know what started it all?"?
this is the spirituality forum, where we discuss things of a spiritual nature, i have redefined nothing, are you claiming that my view is incorrect, that they do not amount to a materialistic view of the emergence and diversification of life? Did i not acknowledge the distinction in purely scientific terms? well then, get spiritual!
Okay, you redefine scientific words. Do you mind if I redefine spiritual words too? Like "God is a carrot."? And continue "Christian people are crazy, they eat their own god! but spit out the green stuff!"?
Robbie, are you a carrot worshipper?
Originally posted by FabianFnasdid i state that it was not a scientific word, nope! did i even try to redefine the inherent ideas? nope, all i stated was that it, by its very tenets, shares, with abiogenesis a purely materialistic view of the emergence and diversification of life. You cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge this and are harping on about carrots???? Get spiritual Fabidoo, this is, after all the spirituality forum, not gardeners world.
Evolution is a scientific word. Yet you want to redefine it? Why? So you can say "Evolutionists doesn't even know what started it all?"?
Okay, you redefine scientific words. Do you mind if I redefine spiritual words too? Like "God is a carrot."? And continue "Christian people are crazy, they eat their own god! but spit out the green stuff!"?
Robbie, are you a carrot worshipper?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOkay, robbie, do you acknowledge that, scientifically speaking, evolution and abiogenesis is two different things? If so, I am satisfied.
did i state that it was not a scientific word, nope! did i even try to redefine the inherent ideas? nope, all i stated was that it, by its very tenets, shares, with abiogenesis a purely materialistic view of the emergence and diversification of life. You cannot even bring yourself to acknowledge this and are harping on about carrots???? Get spiritual Fabidoo, this is, after all the spirituality forum, not gardeners world.
Originally posted by FabianFnasno they are not the same thing, event, discipline, field of study, whatever you want to call them, in the case of evolution and abiogenesis, they simply share a common principle that the emergence of life (abiogenesis) and the diversification of life (evolution) arose through a purely material process. Are you stating that is not the case? If not, then what is difficult to understand?
Thank you, robbie.
And further - abiogenesis, big bang, and evolution is the same thing, spiritually speaking?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI don't think any god need to be responsible to the creation of life. I rather think that beginning of life starts whenever the conditions are the right ones. This was the case some time after the beginning of the history of Earth, some 4 billion of years ago. This is my opinion about abiogenesis.
no they are not the same thing, event, discipline, field of study, whatever you want to call them, in the case of evolution and abiogenesis, they simply share a common principle that the emergence of life (abiogenesis) and the diversification of life (evolution) arose through a purely material process. Are you stating that is not the case? If not, then what is difficult to understand?
As life was there, our Earthly life was driven by the evolution to the state we have today, and further. Human beings is a parenthesis in the history of life, we will evolve further, or die out if we cannot adapt when conditions change. This is my opinion about evolution.
Abiogenesis and evolution is two different fields, and shouldn't be confused with eachother. They answer different questions, but the two deals with life.
I often hear christians use scientific words in another way as they were meant to be used by scientists. They are dead sure about their definitions, and don't understand that, in my scientific heart, it is wrong. The same as your spiritual heart cries out loud when I call your god a carrot. As a carrot for you cannot be a god, abiogenesis for me cannot be equalled evolution.
I hope this doesn't make us enemies, but we can remain friends...
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Originally posted by FabianFnasOk i understand you perspective,
I don't think any god need to be responsible to the creation of life. I rather think that beginning of life starts whenever the conditions are the right ones. This was the case some time after the beginning of the history of Earth, some 4 billion of years ago. This is my opinion about abiogenesis.
As life was there, our Earthly life was driven by the e be equalled evolution.
I hope this doesn't make us enemies, but we can remain friends...
why would i be your enemy, have we not fought many battles only to arise the next day in Valhalla, ready for more debates?
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieA scientific term cannot be correctly defined as a “spiritual” term.
abiogenesis is NOT evolution
it amounts to the same thing though in spiritual terms, a purely materialistic view of the emergence and diversification of life.
Religion can never be made to rationally enter the domain of real science.
Originally posted by menace71We all know that science has its limits. Noone is denying that.
I think the right thing to say is even science has its limits. However think for a minute about the splitting of the atom!
Manny
When will religious people come to understand that religion has its limitations?