1. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 00:311 edit
    Hello

    Scientology is considered as a religion in the States while in most countries and especially in Europe it is considered as a sect.
    Taking the money from you , brainwashing people and manipulating them aren't they features of a sect ?
    So why should Scientology be considered as a religion ?
    What do you think ?
  2. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 00:35
    Taking the money from you , brainwashing people and manipulating them aren't they features of a sect ?
    sounds the same as most mainstream religions.
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    09 Feb '08 00:50
    By sect do you mean cult?

    What really is the difference between the two?
  4. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 01:12
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    By sect do you mean cult?

    What really is the difference between the two?
    actually the difference depends on the different languages :
    from wikipedia,
    Dictionary definitions of the term "cult" include at least eight different meanings. These include both classic and unorthodox religious practice, extreme political practice, objects or concepts of intense devotion including popular fashion, and systems for the cure of disease based on dogmatic teachings.[15]

    The Merriam-Webster online dictionary lists five different definitions of the word "cult."[16]

    1. Formal religious veneration
    2. A system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents;
    3. A religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents;
    4. A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator;
    5. Great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book).
    The Random House Unabridged Dictionary's eight definitions of "cult" are:

    1. A particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies;
    2. An instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers;
    3. The object of such devotion;
    4. A group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc;
    5. Group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols;
    6. A religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader;
    7. The members of such a religion or sect;
    8. Any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
    Webster's New World College Dictionary defines "cult" as:

    1a. a system of religious worship or ritual
    1b. a quasi-religious group, often living in a colony, with a charismatic leader who indoctrinates members with unorthodox or extremist views, practices or beliefs
    2a. devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person, principle or lifestyle, especially when regarded as a fad [the cult of nudism]
    2b. the object of such attachment
    3. a group of followers, sect
    For authoritative British usage, the Compact Oxford English Dictionary of Current English definitions of "cult" and "sect" are:

    cult[17]
    1 a system of religious worship directed towards a particular figure or object.
    2 a small religious group regarded as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.
    3 something popular or fashionable among a particular section of society.
    sect[18]
    1 a group of people with different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong.
    2 a group with extreme or dangerous philosophical or political ideas.
    British "sect" formerly included a contextually implied meaning, of what "cult" now means in both USA and the UK.[19] Some other nations still use the foreign equivalents of old British "sect" ("secte," "sekte," or "secta." etc.) to imply "cult."[20] Both words, as well as "cult" in its original sense of cultus (e.g., Middle Ages cult of Mary), must be understood to correctly interpret 20th century popular cult references in world English.
  5. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 01:232 edits
    Originally posted by HFRorbis
    actually the difference depends on the different languages :
    from wikipedia,
    Dictionary definitions of the term "cult" include at least eight different meanings. These include both classic and unorthodox religious practice, extreme political practice, objects or concepts of intense devotion including popular fashion, and systems for the cure of disease ba y interpret 20th century popular cult references in world English.
    I like my definition better. A religion's focus is on God. Conversely, a cult's focus is on an organization or a charismatic leader. Of course some people would say that that would make Christianity a cult.....that is only if he were not God in the flesh. If he is not God in the flesh, it should then be considered a cult.

    Of course there can spring cults from within Christianity as well as other religions. Some that come to mind are Jim Jones etc, etc.
  6. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 01:46
    Originally posted by whodey
    I like my definition better. A religion's focus is on God. Conversely, a cult's focus is on an organization or a charismatic leader. Of course some people would say that that would make Christianity a cult.....that is only if he were not God in the flesh. If he is not, it should then be considered a cult.

    Of course there can spring cults from within Christianity as well as other religions. Some that come to mind are Jim Jones etc, etc.
    Where does your definition come from?
  7. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 01:49
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Where does your definition come from?
    From within. EEEks, I am thinking for myself!!! I apologise.
  8. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 01:51
    This thread is not about the definition of the words "sect" and "cult"
    We are smart enough to understand the meaning of the word 'sect'

    so let's come back to the thread:
    Is Scientology a sect ?
  9. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 01:53
    Originally posted by HFRorbis
    This thread is not about the definition of the words "sect" and "cult"
    We are smart enough to understand the meaning of the word 'sect'

    so let's come back to the thread:
    Is Scientology a sect ?
    I would say it is a cult. That is all.
  10. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 01:58
    Originally posted by whodey
    From within. EEEks, I am thinking for myself!!! I apologise.
    It helps to have common definitions that is why we have things like dictionnaries.

    Of course, in that last sentence I was using words as they are defined by me so you couldn't tell what that meant. If you ask nicely I'll tell you.
  11. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 02:021 edit
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    It helps to have common definitions that is why we have things like dictionnaries.

    Of course, in that last sentence I was using words as they are defined by me so you couldn't tell what that meant. If you ask nicely I'll tell you.
    Definitions to words can help reframe your idea of what the words in question mean, however, what only matters is your concept of them when you use them. Take the word conservative, for example. John Mccainacrat is running around calling himself a conservative. Go figure?
  12. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 02:03
    Originally posted by HFRorbis
    This thread is not about the definition of the words "sect" and "cult"
    We are smart enough to understand the meaning of the word 'sect'

    so let's come back to the thread:
    Is Scientology a sect ?
    Scientology is a religion. It is a very secretive and annoying one, but it is a religion.
  13. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 02:06
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Scientology is a religion. It is a very secretive and annoying one, but it is a religion.
    I know, I will come up with a new term which is culterigion and pay Webster and Wikki to add it to their definitions. Would that make you happy?
  14. Standard memberLukerik
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    09 Feb '08 02:08
    My understanding was from Hubbard's books and a few other sources that it is a business, but I could be wrong.
  15. Joined
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    09 Feb '08 02:14
    Originally posted by whodey
    Definitions to words can help reframe your idea of what the words in question mean, however, what only matters is your concept of them when you use them. Take the word conservative, for example. John Mccainacrat is running around calling himself a conservative. Go figure?
    That is why it is important to have consistent definitions - so we can communicate properly.

    I also wonder why people think turning McCain into McCainocrat is actually witty/funny/intelligent.
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