1. SubscriberFMF
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    04 Aug '14 14:51
    A TV drama series called Crossbones has just drawn to close.

    Blackbeard, a pirate warlord, meets Tom Lowe, an undercover agent from the British Navy, and they have a conversation when they first meet. The topic is fear and reputation, as well it might be when considering what Blackbeard projects onto both his friends and enemies from his secret island in the Caribbean.

    Blackbeard: Do you accept God Mr Lowe?

    Tome Lowe: I fear Him but have no love for Him.

    Blackbeard: Why ever not?

    Tome Lowe: Because He wishes me to fear Him.

    Blackbeard: Now that is a splendid answer.

    For "believers": does this love v fear dichotomy ever trouble you?

    For "believers" and "unbelievers" alike: can threats ever make one actually believe something that one does not believe?
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Aug '14 15:12
    Fear is the mind-killer, so no.

    The meat of the Christian faith is love, not fear, regardless of what people like John Calvin might say.

    All those whose focus is on fear, Christians who hold fear of punishment over would-be converts' heads, or atheists who assume God is a god of fear, they all have the message tragically wrong.
  3. SubscriberPianoman1
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    04 Aug '14 15:19
    Originally posted by FMF
    A TV drama series called Crossbones has just drawn to close.

    Blackbeard, a pirate warlord, meets Tom Lowe, an undercover agent from the British Navy, and they have a conversation when they first meet. The topic is fear and reputation, as well it might be when considering what Blackbeard projects onto both his friends and enemies from his secret island in the ...[text shortened]... elievers" alike: can threats ever make one actually believe something that one does not believe?
    There can be no doubt that the God of the Old Testament ruled by fear. He was a fairly unpleasant character.
    The God of the New Testament also holds fear to be an important part of the mix, but there is a clear message of hope through Him sacrificing His only son for us.
    The message of Jesus, however, is unquestionably Love.
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    05 Aug '14 08:29
    Originally posted by FMF
    For "believers" and "unbelievers" alike: can threats ever make one actually believe something that one does not believe?
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    05 Aug '14 08:431 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    For "believers" and "unbelievers" alike: can threats ever make one actually believe something that one does not believe?
    Yes, Pascal's Wager is surprisingly seductive. If I send out an email that says the recipient will have extremely bad luck unless he/she forwards it to ten other people, a significant number of people will forward it 'just in case'. Before long, some of those people will actually start to believe that they will have bad luck if they don't forward it every time they receive a copy.
    It helps the throw in a story or two about people who didn't forward it.
  6. Account suspended
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    05 Aug '14 08:572 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    A TV drama series called Crossbones has just drawn to close.

    Blackbeard, a pirate warlord, meets Tom Lowe, an undercover agent from the British Navy, and they have a conversation when they first meet. The topic is fear and reputation, as well it might be when considering what Blackbeard projects onto both his friends and enemies from his secret island in the ...[text shortened]... elievers" alike: can threats ever make one actually believe something that one does not believe?
    The dialogue of course makes no mention of any perspective of fear except in a one dimensional negatively charged rather orthodox view that fear is a terrible thing. This is rather clear from the answers that have been proffered so far. Fear in fact can be a positive quality. For example, i fear hurting myself so i don't stand close to the precipice of a mountain ridge on a snowy and windy day. Thus from this perspective fear can and is healthy, for it helps me to preserve my life and not do silly things. Thus to answer your question, there is no trouble for the man of faith because there is a symbiotic relationship between love and 'fear', indeed one can be motivated by love to act in a specific way, 'fearful', of bringing the displeasure of the object of ones devotion.
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    05 Aug '14 09:48
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Thus to answer your question, there is no trouble for the man of faith because there is a symbiotic relationship between love and 'fear', indeed one can be motivated by love to act in a specific way, 'fearful', of bringing the displeasure of the object of ones devotion.
    Women who are victims of domestic violence sometimes get caught up in a fear-love syndrome similar to the "symbiotic relationship" you describe here.
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    05 Aug '14 09:52
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    The dialogue of course makes no mention of any perspective of fear except in a one dimensional negatively charged rather orthodox view that fear is a terrible thing.
    Perhaps the kind of fear Tom Lowe was referring to was connected with the threats of eternal torture in a burning furnace that many Christians propagate, including on this forum. I agree that it's "one dimensional" but it also seems to sit front and centre in the ideology and "ministries" of some prominent evangelizing Christians active here.
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    05 Aug '14 10:27
    Originally posted by FMF
    Perhaps the kind of fear Tom Lowe was referring to was connected with the threats of eternal torture in a burning furnace that many Christians propagate, including on this forum. I agree that it's "one dimensional" but it also seems to sit front and centre in the ideology and "ministries" of some prominent evangelizing Christians active here.
    perhaps you are correct and it was this irrational fear borne of the perception of the portrayal of a terrible and vengeful God as you correctly identify with the ideology of many professing Christians. Never the less the question was an open ended one and we need not be subject to their portrayals.
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    05 Aug '14 10:33
    Originally posted by FMF
    Women who are victims of domestic violence sometimes get caught up in a fear-love syndrome similar to the "symbiotic relationship" you describe here.
    I have no experience of domestic violence, its causes or the psychology of those who live under it although i suspect its not quite the same as refraining from a course of action which one may deem as contrary to Gods perceived will as living in abject fear of the retribution of an abusive husband, for one is quite positive and healthy the other essentially destructive.
  11. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
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    05 Aug '14 10:48
    Originally posted by FMF
    For "believers" and "unbelievers" alike: can threats ever make one actually believe something that one does not believe?
    Fear itself cannot change one's belief. However, it can make one more open to evidence that points in the direction of the fear [and conversely, less open to evidence that there is nothing to fear]. In time, this biased evidence-gathering can lead to a change of belief.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    05 Aug '14 11:11
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I have no experience of domestic violence, its causes or the psychology of those who live under it although i suspect its not quite the same as refraining from a course of action which one may deem as contrary to Gods perceived will as living in abject fear of the retribution of an abusive husband, for one is quite positive and healthy the other essentially destructive.
    Can living in abject fear of retribution from a God figure, for actions which are said to be contrary to His perceived will, be a basis for a genuine form of "love"?
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    05 Aug '14 11:19
    Originally posted by FMF
    Can living in abject fear of retribution from a God figure, for actions which are said to be contrary to His perceived will, be a basis for a genuine form of "love"?
    No, but then again abject fear is not what the man of faith experiences or should not experience if he has a proper understanding of Gods perceived will and the question therefore makes NO SENSE in this regard.
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