@moonbus saidHave you watched the lecture? These are spoken about in great detail.
The Bible itself, of course: exegesis (scholarly examination of internal consistency, style, vocabulary, etc.), the provenance of the various 'books' (scrolls, actually) of which it is composed, the surviving original fragments from the time of probable composition and documentation of the chain of custody of those fragments.
As well as references from non-Biblical sources ...[text shortened]... nonized by the Council of Nicea in the 4c. AD. Cf the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Nag Hamadi Library, etc.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIf you are told the truth and you say no, I know better, it most certainly is not that! From that point on are you responsible for your claims?
@KellyJay
Okay, let's put 'the ultimate truth' in a dark room. We both stand outside of that room, due to our finite nature. We both might think we know what is inside the room, and can at least agree that whatever we 'think' or 'believe' resides inside will not in the slightest way affect what is actually in there. If the 'ultimate truth' is that the Christian God ...[text shortened]... ped inside the room, we simply do not have access to the numbers to declare boldly that our 2+2 = 4.
@kellyjay saidSuppose God appeared to you, and you were in absolutely no doubt that it was really God Himself, and he said, "You know, Kelly, I'm really going to forgive the atheists, they just don't know it yet." In other words, no lake of fire, no eternal torture for non-belief. Could you still give me a compelling reason to believe what you believe? And don't say, "because it's the truth" -- that's begging the question.
So you say.
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@moonbus saidI would reject whatever it was that appeared pretending to be God. God is good and truth so He can contradict Himself. Which is why I believe everything He does is both logical and reasonable.
Suppose God appeared to you, and you were in absolutely no doubt that it was really God Himself, and he said, "You know, Kelly, I'm really going to forgive the atheists, they just don't know it yet." In other words, no lake of fire, no eternal torture for non-belief. Could you still give me a compelling reason to believe what you believe? And don't say, "because it's the truth" -- that's begging the question.
@kellyjay saidDo you accept that this post of yours is founded on your subectivity and personal opinions about "God" and not on objectivity?
I would reject whatever it was that appeared pretending to be God. God is good and truth so He can contradict Himself. With is why I believe everything He does is both logical and reasonable.
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@kellyjay saidI suppose Abraham had a moment of doubt when what appeared to him to be God told him to slit his son's throat. Nonetheless, he overcame his doubt and submitted to what must have seemed to him to be an abomination, and he took his son out fully intending to slit his throat. And now you're saying you would not accept God appearing to you? You would reject an epiphany in preference to what?
I would reject whatever it was that appeared pretending to be God. God is good and truth so He can contradict Himself. Which is why I believe everything He does is both logical and reasonable.
@moonbus saidI think you have failed to understand the meaning of the event you are referencing concerning Abraham.
I suppose Abraham had a moment of doubt when what appeared to him to be God told him to slit his son's throat. Nonetheless, he overcame his doubt and submitted to what must have seemed to him to be an abomination, and he took his son out fully intending to slit his throat. And now you're saying you would not accept God appearing to you? You would reject an epiphany in preference to what?
Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
God showed Abraham something when He(God)told him(Abraham) to kill his son Isaac. Abraham raised the knife to kill Isaac in obedience to his God knowing God would and could save Isaac.
It was an object lesson concerning the gospel, which is God sacrificing His own Son to save the world of lost sinners.
@kellyjay saidHow do you know God can not contradict Himself? Who are you to judge Him if He does so, bearing in mind your inferior (compared to God) understanding of both 'good' and 'truth.' Perhaps divine logic and reason sometimes requires contradiction?
I would reject whatever it was that appeared pretending to be God. God is good and truth so He can contradict Himself. Which is why I believe everything He does is both logical and reasonable.
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@secondson saidI think KJ failed to read my supposition, that he would not doubt that it was really God who appeared to him and told him something incredible.
I think you have failed to understand the meaning of the event you are referencing concerning Abraham.
Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
God showed Abraham something when He(God)told him(Abraham) to kill his son Isaac. Abr ...[text shortened]... esson concerning the gospel, which is God sacrificing His own Son to save the world of lost sinners.