Many have made comparisons to both Socrates and Christ. Both seem to have been focused mainly on pursuing and understanding truth as they saw it. In fact, many of Socrates teachings sound as if retreived directly from the Bible. Such sayings include the following:
"An unexamined life is not worth living"
"He is richest who is content with the least"
"For acquiring by your means much information unaided by instruction they will appear to possess much knowledge, while, in fact, they will, for the most part, know nothing at all, and, morever, be disagreeable people to deal with, as having become wise in their own conceit, instead of truly wise"
"I was afraid that by observing objects with my eyes and trying to comprehend them with each of my other senses I might blind my soul altogether"
"If a rich man is proud of his wealth, he should not be praised until it is known how he employs it"
"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slide into their minds through the medium of certain resemblances to that truth"
"And in knowing that you know nothing, that makes you the smartest of all"
When you think about it, both pursued the truth and both were martyred for their pursuit of truth. They exposed to many truths, asked to many questions, and help to bring to light the darkness within man's soul.
Originally posted by thesonofsaulIndeed. Did they have the forsight and wisdom to know that they need not do so? After all, their teachings and lives have both become immortalized forever as a result.
Don't forget that neither one of them wrote anything down or left anything of themselves behind, leaving it up to followers to report what they "remembered" being taught.
Originally posted by whodeyHave you considered the Socratic problem? Did Socrates actually say all these things written down in the dialogues? Or were they Plato's words? It's probable, since Socrates never wrote his own work down, his teachings has been coloured by Plato's own teachings.
...both were martyred for their pursuit of truth. They exposed to many truths, asked to many questions, and help to bring to light the darkness within man's soul.
Plato's dialogues are also now being questioned by scholars as being spurious (with the possible exception of the seventh letter). That leaves another question hanging in the air. How may Plato have used Socrates teachings to fit them to a certain style, making for interesting literature?
Another thing, more to the point, that strikes me when I think about all these things, is the similarity between how their stories were preserved for prosperity. Everything we know about christ (almost) comes from the bible, written and compiled way after he actually lived. We have the same problem here that we have with Socrates. Is it really the teaching of christ being conveyed in the new testament, or is it the work of those whom followed christ? If so, how much stood as it were by christ, and how much are adaptations or loose influences?
The funny thing about us humans is that if we actually sit down and write thousands of lines of text for descendants to read, we tend to want to get our own point of view across. It's really, really hard to write without having your own ideas influence the work. Even when we think we're giving the story accurately as it were, we tend to colour it with our own thoughts. Also, it's really, really hard to actually understand everything that another person says (just think about all the misunderstandings we have in everyday life, and then imagine trying to understand complex philosophies exactly the same as another person). So, even though I'm your disciple and I listen to everything you say, I may not fully understand you. Which will reflect in my writing later on.
I should think that there's actually many other historical characters, dying for their cause and then having their teachings plotted down by followers. This is nothing extraordinary in itself, and I really don't find it interesting (other than maybe in a psychological or sociological sense). What always arises my curiousity is this question: How much of their original teachings is actually there for me to read?
Alas, their teachings are forever obscured from our view through the dissipating coherence of history and what we know are the words as written by their followers.
Which brings on a realisation. Aren't those who wrote down those ideas, thoughts and principles really much more interesting than the mentors whom supposedly spoke them? And is it possible that they portrayed their mentors in a light, excluding all the bad things and focusing on specific parts of their teachings, that would help them tell their own stories?
Originally posted by stockenWhat does it matter if Socrates said these things or not. The fact is that someone did. The other question is do their statement reveal what truth is. That is for you and I to decide, assuming choose you pursue the truth at all.
Have you considered the Socratic problem? Did Socrates actually say all these things written down in the dialogues? Or were they Plato's words? It's probable, since Socrates never wrote his own work down, his teachings has been coloured by Plato's own teachings.
Plato's dialogues are also now being questioned by scholars as being spurious (with the possib ...[text shortened]... ng on specific parts of their teachings, that would help them tell their own stories?
Originally posted by whodeyOkay, I'm lost to your actual point.
What does it matter if Socrates said these things or not. The fact is that someone did. The other question is do their statement reveal what truth is. That is for you and I to decide, assuming choose you pursue the truth at all.
Originally posted by thesonofsaulTruth is truth. It matters little how you come to the point of dicovering the truth. The important part is that you find it. If the truths written down were actually from another source but credited to Socrates, what does it matter in the end? What matters is, do the teachings reveal to us truth. I think they do.
Okay, I'm lost to your actual point.