Originally posted by FMFIf I believe I was able to fly, would that mean I could? No, reality would
What I believe now does not alter the fact that I believed I had Christ in my life when I was Christian. You believing you have Christ in your life is what makes you a Christian. The same belief made me a Christian. The fact that I am an ex-Christian now cannot alter the fact that I was a Christian for almost thirty years.
smack me down hard if I tried to put that into practice. Reality for you
back in your Christian days either did, or did not have Christ in your
life. You now claim that Jesus could not be in anyone's life, that would also
include you! So all the times you were claiming to be a Christian, all of
those years, all of the fellowship, all of the meetings, you did not have
Jesus in your life according to you now. You had the belief in Christ, but
not Christ according to you. Since a Christian has Christ in their lives and
you did not, what does that make you?
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayNo, a Christian does not have Christ in their lives. They only believe that they do. Either that, or you, and anyone else claiming to be Christian, are not actually Christian, and no True Christians exist.
Since a Christian has Christ in their lives and you did not, what does that make you?
I think the reason this disagreement has lasted so long is you refuse to see it from the other persons point of view.
There are two reasonable possibilities:
1. God exists, Christ is in your life, was formerly in FMFs life, but he no longer believes that was the case.
2. God does not exist, and Christ was never in either of your lives, but you continue to believe that he is.
But you seem to reject both and instead claim that if FMF no longer believes Christ is in his life then Christ necessarily was never in his life. It seems that claim needs more justification than you have given.
Originally posted by KellyJayWhen I was a Christian I wasn't faking it in the same way that you [or so I sincerely believe] are not faking it now.
This is the part I've been asking you about, you deny now it cannot be real
for me or anyone else, yet you claim you were not faking. Okay, you were
not faking, but it wasn't real according to you, so you were doing what?
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayWhat I believe about it now does not alter the fact that I believed it then. I still don't get why you aren't saying that I was right then and wrong now.
So all the times you were claiming to be a Christian, all of those years, all of the fellowship, all of the meetings, you did not have Jesus in your life according to you now.
Originally posted by FMFYou have made the connection between what I believe about Jesus Christ
What I believe about it now does not alter the fact that I believed it then. I still don't get why you aren't saying that I was right then and wrong now.
and others is no different than what you used to believe, and you declare
that what you had wasn't real. You have said if I'm not mistaken I'd have
to go back and verify that we would be better off to flip and be like you.
Both of those statements promote that although we honestly believe in
Jesus, He isn't a reality worthy of faith. So as you have made these
statements, it still flies over your head that if Christ is very real, you have
mistakenly view of reality for what it really is. You've denied, the reality of
Christ in your life by doing so for everyone to see, countless times you
have declared you are an ex-Christian.
So all the while that you were a Christian, it wasn't real, it is was false for
you as you imply it is false for us. So what you were doing all those years
clinging to something you now claim is false! If it wasn't reality you were
putting you hope in it was something fake, it had to be since you now
declare it so. You are after all, according to you, someone who rejects Christ
now.
Kelly
Originally posted by FMFWhen you were a Christian, what you were putting your faith into wasn't
When I was a Christian I wasn't faking it in the same way that you [or so I sincerely believe] are not faking it now.
realc according to you now. So for years, it wasn't real, real is what you
have now, again, according to you.
Kelly
-Removed-To be able to fall away from something you must actually be there first.
That is the bottom line in my debate, I've said it over and over.
Now, does he claim he believed he had a relationship with Jesus Christ?
He says he lost his faith!
If he said he lost Jesus, then I'd say he fell away from Jesus, but that is
not what he is doing!
To be enlighten and reject is possible the scripture tells us that, those are
the ones that fell away. Others who mouth the words, but never know
Jesus cannot claim they fall away from someone they never really knew.
Kelly
Originally posted by FMFOriginally posted by josephw
This is an assertion steeped in the "idealogical dogma" we have been discussing.
What is so odd is how you can claim to believe in the existence of God, yet are apparently void of any knowledge of God, but still insist that no one else does either. Irrational.
"This is an assertion steeped in the "idealogical dogma" we have been discussing."
Your answer is plainly avoidance of the "assertion" I made. Why do you do that post after post? Why are you trying so hard to avoid making a clear statement in reply to a clear "assertion"?
The "assertion" is that you have said that you believe there is a God. The question posed is how do you know that? If you have knowledge of the existence of God, then please say what it is and how you know it.
Quit avoiding the "assertion" if you please, and demonstrate some intellectual integrity.