![Sonship - Repentance is not Required. [What Madness!]](/img/uisvg/forum-heading/spirituality.svg){kind=icon}
The height of lunacy in my opinion. Sonship in his desire to support the flawed OSAS at all costs, makes the following statement in response to the quote from Paul :
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
Sonship says:
Look at these words -
"It is impossible ... to renew them again unto repentence."
The Gospel of John contains multiple passages on how a person receives eternal life.
Find the word "repentance" or "repent" or "repented" ANYWHERE in the Gospel of John.
.. John never speaks of repentance as a requirement to receive eternal life ..
Are Christians here in support of this statement?
Originally posted by Rajk999I thought the entire reason Christ came and offered up his life as a sacrifice was so that on its basis we could appeal to God, through repentance and get forgiveness for our sins.
The height of lunacy in my opinion. Sonship in his desire to support the flawed OSAS at all costs, makes the following statement in response to the quote from Paul :
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the pow ...[text shortened]... to receive eternal life ..
Are Christians here in support of this statement?[/b]
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Originally posted by Rajk999Yes! But I will no longer continue with your childish posts.
The height of lunacy in my opinion. Sonship in his desire to support the flawed OSAS at all costs, makes the following statement in response to the quote from Paul :
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the pow ...[text shortened]... to receive eternal life ..
Are Christians here in support of this statement?[/b]
Originally posted by robbie carrobieProbably we were mistaken. Maybe Sonship and Checkbaiter can enlighten us how is it that repentance is not a requirement anymore. Im pretty sure it used to be.
I thought the entire reason Christ came and offered up his life as a sacrifice was so that on its basis we could appeal to God, through repentance and get forgiveness for our sins.
Originally posted by Rajk999Just like the word "Trinty" is not in the Holy Bible, the idea is taught, so it is for repentance in the Gospel of John. Repentance is a turning away from sin, and this idea is taught in the story of the woman caught in adultry and brought before Jesus in John chapter 8. Jesus tells her to go an sin no more which is the same idea of turning from ones sin in repentance.
The height of lunacy in my opinion. Sonship in his desire to support the flawed OSAS at all costs, makes the following statement in response to the quote from Paul :
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the pow ...[text shortened]... to receive eternal life ..
Are Christians here in support of this statement?[/b]
Originally posted by RJHindsOk thanks for that. What do you make of sonships statement.
Just like the word "Trinty" is not in the Holy Bible, the idea is taught, so it is for repentance in the Gospel of John. Repentance is a turning away from sin, and this idea is taught in the story of the woman caught in adultry and brought before Jesus in John chapter 8. Jesus tells her to go an sin no more which is the same idea of turning from ones sin in repentance.
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Originally posted by Rajk999I didn't say I would stop posting, boy, you read into things abnormally. I said I will no longer answer your childish posts.
I agree. I think you should stop posting.
So you can sin all you want.
Dont need to repent.
Still get eternal life ..
Very nice doctrine you got there ...😀
BTW, Mr. Sarcasm, I avoid sin like the plague that it is. (Another one of your imagined reads.)
Enjoy your short lived religiosity. 🙂
Originally posted by checkbaiterI have repeatedly said I am not interested in your personal situation. This is a general discussion about doctrine. You are of no interest to me and I would wager nobody else as well.
I didn't say I would stop posting, boy, you read into things abnormally. I said I will no longer answer your childish posts.
BTW, Mr. Sarcasm, I avoid sin like the plague that it is. (Another one of your imagined reads.)
Enjoy your short lived religiosity. 🙂
So, please when you see the word 'you' in a statement of doctrine it always means 'Christians in general'. Therefore the statement I made earlier has nothing to do with you personally and whether or not you sin.
So you believe :
Christians in general can sin all they want.
Christians in general do not need to repent.
Still they get eternal life ..
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Originally posted by Rajk999I requested that you show me the word "repent" or "repentance" or "repented" in John's Gospel.
The height of lunacy in my opinion. Sonship in his desire to support the flawed OSAS at all costs, makes the following statement in response to the quote from Paul :
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the pow ...[text shortened]... to receive eternal life ..
Are Christians here in support of this statement?[/b]
*** Did you find the words ? ***
Let's start by you admitting that you can or cannot locate those words in the Gospel of John.
Then you should acknowledge that I did not say God was not interested in man's repentance. The word DOES occur in Matthew's Gospel.
We are to repent for what? We are to repent for not being under God's administration. We are to repent for the kingdom. We are to repent for not being under God's government.
" Now in those days, John the Baptist appeared, preaching in the wilderness of Judea and saying, Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." (Matt. 3:1,2)
"Produce then fruit worthy of your repentance." (Matt. 3:8)
" From that time Jesus began to proclaim and to say, Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." (Matt. 4:17)
We are there in Matthew, to repent for not being under God's administration. We are to repent for the government of God and repent to be under the reigning administration of God.
But in John's Gospel of life which many times explains how a man received eternal life, the word repent is absent. What the Gospel of John emphasizes again and again is BELIEVING.
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Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe he is being led astray by the teaching of heresy by Witness Lee.
Maybe you are dulled because of your idol - Conservatism and the Old Time Religion - substituting your cultural biases and national philosophy instead of Jesus Christ and the word of God.
Originally posted by sonshipYou are just digging yourself deeper in the hole of false doctrine.
I requested that you show me the word [b]"repent" or "repentance" or "repented" in John's Gospel.
*** Did you find the words ? ***
Let's start by you admitting that you can or cannot locate those words in the Gospel of John.
Then you should acknowledge that I did not say God was not interested in man's repentance. The word DOE ...[text shortened]... e word repent is absent. What the Gospel of John emphasizes again and again is BELIEVING.[/b]
So far none of the Christians have come to your aid to support your doctrine. Two are agreeing that your statement pertaining to repentance is wrong.
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Originally posted by Rajk999You were going to show me the words "repent" or "repentence" or "repented" in the Gospel of John.
You are just digging yourself deeper in the hole of false doctrine.
So far none of the Christians have come to your aid to support your doctrine. Two are agreeing that your statement pertaining to repentance is wrong.
Your teachers never told you that it was not there.
Go back and ask them why.
John is a book clearly explaining how a man receives eternal life. And repentance is not there in, for example, these three clear teachings -
"That everyone who believes into Him may have eternal life." (John 3:16)
No mention of repentance.
" ... that every one who believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life." (3:16b)
No mention of repentance.
"He who believes into the Son has eternal life, but he who disobeys the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him." (v.36)
No mention of repentance and to disobey the Son there probably means the disobedience of unbelief. He commands us to believe in Him.
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I have no hope that Rajk999 will read or understand my thoughts. So I make a clear division for other readers to pay attention.
Of course REPENTANCE is mentioned a number of times in connection with salvation. But there is a difference between the Bible's teaching of repentance and the view of repentance by those who seek to be justified by works of the law.
Repentance in the mind of so many legalists means SELF IMPROVEMENT. To them repentance means that you have to self improve yourself BEFORE God will give you eternal life.
Yes, they use the word repentance. And they may scoff when someone points out that the Gospel of John teaching us how to receive eternal life, does not mention repentance.
The scoffer's concept of repentance is usually SELF IMPROVEMENT. They hate to think that man can do SOMETHING and leave the rest up to God. They cannot stand the thought that the sinner is an unconditional beneficiary of eternal life in Christ. Although they may realize that it is impossible to do EVERYTHING, they think that the sinner must at least do SOMETHING to self improve himself. He cannot free himself from the thought that man HAS to do something good before he can be saved.
Everything in the natural mind of man fights against the proposition that one could be an unconditional beneficiary of the gift of eternal life. Repentance is indeed a biblical concept which is spoken in connection with salvation. But it is the "repentance" of self improvement to make oneself a co-bearer of the burden bore entirely by the Son of God.
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There are many, many passages that I could discuss where repentance is needed for full salvation.
John's never mentions repentance but only believing. Actually, the real repentance is included in faith in Christ. This is the change of mind about one's past. And everyone believing into Jesus has to have some change of mind about his or her past.
But the "repentance" which legalists argue must come before one can receive eternal life is the "repentance" of self improving yourself before you are deemed worthy to receive eternal life. And to this kind of man conceived "repentance" I argue is not a requirement to receive eternal life.
The word "repentance" may be used by such legalistic Judiazers as Rajk999. When you look carefully into their concept of repentance, what they really have in mind is -
IE. You cannot be an unconditional recipient of eternal life. You HAVE to improve your behavior first and then you can receive eternal life. You have to "repent" and change your future living in order to be deserving of eternal life. (paraphrase)
Is this not always the tone we get from Rajk999 and a few others here?
So though I run the risk of being misunderstood by showing that John never mentions repentance, perhaps some will see what I mean.
Whether it is keeping the law, performing good works, some people always think that the beneficiary of God's gift has to DO something and never be willing to stand in the position of an undeserving receiver.
The real REPENTANCE in the Bible is the realization that one does not deserve God's gift. It is a change of mind about one's past. It is not an effort or promise to self improve that one may be PAID eternal life as a compensation.
Is there any Christian brother or sister out there who agrees ?