1. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Jul '17 17:401 edit
    John 7:38-39 English Standard Version
    Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will
    flow rivers of living water.’” Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those
    who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been
    given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

    Acts 5:32
    And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom
    God has given to those who obey him.”

    Romans 8:11
    If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who
    raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies
    through his Spirit who dwells in you.

    1 Corinthians 2:12
    Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is
    from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

    2 Corinthians 5:4-6 English Standard Version (ESV)
    For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we
    would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is
    mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this
    very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are
    always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body
    we are away from the Lord,

    Luke 11:9-13
    And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find;
    knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and
    the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
    What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish
    give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?
    If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
    how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those
    who ask him!”

    Romans 8:9
    You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of
    God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does
    not belong to him.

    John 3:18English Standard Version (ESV)
    18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not
    believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name
    of the only Son of God.

    So does anyone think you can ignore God and be saved?
    If you do not have the Spirit of God in you, can you belong to Him?
  2. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    23 Jul '17 18:00
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    John 7:38-39 English Standard Version
    Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will
    flow rivers of living water.’” Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those
    who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been
    given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

    Acts 5:32
    And we are witnesses to these thing ...[text shortened]... an ignore God and be saved?
    If you do not have the Spirit of God in you, can you belong to Him?
    Okay, let's run with Acts 5:32, "And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

    Haven't we already established that even Gentiles can obey God, by adhering to his law written on their hearts? And Is Jesus not glorified by our actions, whoever we are, by his message being taken to heart and replicated?!
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    23 Jul '17 18:04
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Okay, let's run with Acts 5:32, "And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

    Haven't we already established that even Gentiles can obey God, by adhering to his law written on their hearts? And Is Jesus not glorified by our actions, whoever we are, by his message being taken to heart and replicated?!
    Is it possible? Sure, but is it recognizable to people like you?

    If one had the truth of God written upon the heart, would one reject Jesus once exposed to the truth?
  4. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    23 Jul '17 18:12
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Is it possible? Sure, but is it recognizable to people like you?

    If one had the truth of God written upon the heart, would one reject Jesus once exposed to the truth?
    If it's recognisable to people like you sir, then yes, it's probably recognisable to people like me.

    And what do you mean 'if' one has the truth written on their heart. The bible is very clear this is the case (even for Gentiles).
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Jul '17 18:15
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Okay, let's run with Acts 5:32, "And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

    Haven't we already established that even Gentiles can obey God, by adhering to his law written on their hearts? And Is Jesus not glorified by our actions, whoever we are, by his message being taken to heart and replicated?!
    We have established that even the Gentiles can obey God, believing in Him can receive
    the Holy Spirit. The example and why that first happen is actually in scripture, and God
    makes it very as to why it was done.

    Acts 10:43-45English Standard Version (ESV)
    To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives
    forgiveness of sins through his name.” While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy
    Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who
    had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out
    even on the Gentiles.
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    23 Jul '17 18:17
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    If it's recognisable to people like you sir, then yes, it's probably recognisable to people like me.

    And what do you mean 'if' one has the truth written on their heart. The bible is very clear this is the case (even for Gentiles).
    So you believe the Bible claims all Gentiles have God's truth written upon their hearts?

    Do you believe those who call good evil and evil good know God?
  7. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    23 Jul '17 18:20
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    We have established that even the Gentiles can obey God, believing in Him can receive
    the Holy Spirit. The example and why that first happen is actually in scripture, and God
    makes it very as to why it was done.

    Acts 10:43-45English Standard Version (ESV)
    To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives
    forgiveness of ...[text shortened]... ith Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out
    even on the Gentiles.
    So what does that tell us sir, that the 'gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.'?!

    Does that not negate the need to 'believe' in order to receive the Holy Spirit?
  8. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Jul '17 18:31
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    So what does that tell us sir, that the 'gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.'?!

    Does that not negate the need to 'believe' in order to receive the Holy Spirit?
    Yes, believing is the first step, Jesus, and all of those that have taken part in writing the
    scriptures are clear on this point. We are saved by God's grace through faith, it is a gift of
    God not something one can earn, not something that one can work up too. Gifts are given
    not earned by the one receiving them. So from God's grace, our faith, everything is from
    God, even the desire to come to God is because God draws us. Once done, our life
    begins with God, to do those things God desires which will including improving our love
    with God and those around us, even those that we find unloveable and unworthy as we
    were before God saved us.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    23 Jul '17 18:431 edit
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    Once done, our life begins with God, to do those things God desires which will including improving our love with God and those around us, even those that we find unloveable and unworthy as we were before God saved us.
    So we can get a glimpse of God's grace working through you by looking at how you treat those around you that you find unloveable and unworthy?
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    23 Jul '17 21:16
    Originally posted by @fmf
    So we can get a glimpse of God's grace working through you by looking at how you treat those around you that you find unloveable and unworthy?
    Did those who crucified Christ see his love working based on how he treated those around him?
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jul '17 00:09
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Did those who crucified Christ see his love working based on how he treated those around him?
    My question is to KellyJay about what he believes about himself so you asking me a question doesn't answer it. If you think we can or cannot see God's grace working through KellyJay, then say so. If you want an opinion on what Christ did or didn't do, ask a Christian.
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    24 Jul '17 00:46
    Originally posted by @fmf
    My question is to KellyJay about what he believes about himself so you asking me a question doesn't answer it. If you think we can or cannot see God's grace working through KellyJay, then say so. If you want an opinion on what Christ did or didn't do, ask a Christian.
    If you can ask questions, so can I?

    Try being different this time and answer it.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jul '17 01:10
    Originally posted by @eladar
    If you can ask questions, so can I?.
    Of course you can. And, like I said, if you want some analysis of what Christ did (or, at least, what Christians claim he did) then ask a Christian.
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    24 Jul '17 01:17
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Of course you can. And, like I said, if you want some analysis of what Christ did (or, at least, what Christians claim he did) then ask a Christian.
    I am asking you what you believe is being said.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jul '17 01:211 edit
    Originally posted by @eladar
    I am asking you what you believe is being said.
    I am waiting for KellyJay's explanation and then I will be able to tell you what I think he means. What I believe is being said is that his life begins with God, to do those things God desires which will including improving his love with God and those around him, even those that he finds unloveable and unworthy as he was before God saved me.
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