1. Standard memberDasa
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    22 Oct '10 14:291 edit
    The process of Self Realization must start with desire for Self Realization, and without the desire, its all up hill.

    Many people inquire into the spiritual life, without the desire and with the wrong attitude, which is self defeating.

    The wrong attitude would be to find fault, or to make argument, or to think they are the authority, and that there is no need to accept a higher authority.

    The only way to know of God and the spiritual life, is through the descending method of receiving knowledge, as long as the source of the knowledge is perfect.

    The descending method is embraced along with ones own realization which comes from within, in other words, when one hears truth, it resonates within the heart if the heart is pure.

    To purify the heart and mind a person must live a principled life and study the Vedanta teachings.

    The descending method of learning has been accepted by everyone for all their learning up to their present moment, so why would the descending method for self realization not be accepted.

    It would not be accepted because of mistrust, or because of a lack of desire in the first place, and because the world has so many false religions and people have been affected by putting trust in those false religions, and have given up on there ever being any true and bona fide religion at all.

    The Vedanta Scriptures have been with man for millions of years and pre-date history itself, and this knowledge has been passed down from Lord Brahma the first living being at the beginning of creation.

    Vedanta is the authority on Self Realization and God, and there is no other teaching to replace it, and the First Lesson is that one must accept the authority of Vedanta, to make any progress in Self Realization.

    This acceptance of the Vedanta teaching as the authority, is what is called the "Leap of Faith" or surrendering, and without this "Leap of Faith" the process does not start.

    After studying and living the principled life,..... the "leap of Faith" diminishes into knowing, and is eventually not required. (faith is for the beginner) and for some persons, they stay a beginner for six months or sixty years, depending on their sincerity and their commitment to the process.

    Reasons for accepting Vedanta as the authority is because the knowledge comes from the Personality Of Godhead originally, and descends in disciplic succession to this present day, and it is authorized by Guru, and Sastra, and it is self actualizing.

    There is no need to be anxious about starting the process late in life, because all living beings are eternal, and are reborn time and time again, until the consciousness has been re-newed to the platform of Self Realization, and real sentiments for God have been established, and any advancement on the spiritual path is never lost, but continues with you into eternity.
  2. Cape Town
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    22 Oct '10 14:56
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    This acceptance of the Vedanta teaching as the authority, is what is called the "Leap of Faith" or surrendering, and without this "Leap of Faith" the process does not start.
    A more accurate description would be "self delusion".

    You start off quite well explaining why we are reluctant to believe you, but then instead of explaining why we should believe you, you simply say we must take a 'leap of faith' and believe you without any rational reason. Sorry, but I for one to not take leaps of faith when it comes to people like you that insult me at every turn and pretend to know it all, yet cant answer some of the most basic questions.
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    22 Oct '10 15:15
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    The process of Self Realization must start with desire for Self Realization, and without the desire, its all up hill.

    Many people inquire into the spiritual life, without the desire and with the wrong attitude, which is self defeating.

    The wrong attitude would be to find fault, or to make argument, or to think they are the authority, and that there ...[text shortened]... any advancement on the spiritual path is never lost, but continues with you into eternity.
    spiritual realisation is realising that those who cannot substantiate their point of view are more than likely to be professing a simple opinion masquerading as some kind of truth, when in fact, one would be better off watching cartoons, for at least they are infinitely more entertaining and may at least contain a lesson, if its just to avoid falling pianos or banana skins.
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    22 Oct '10 15:30
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    The process of Self Realization must start with desire for Self Realization, and without the desire, its all up hill.

    Many people inquire into the spiritual life, without the desire and with the wrong attitude, which is self defeating.

    The wrong attitude would be to find fault, or to make argument, or to think they are the authority, and that there ...[text shortened]... any advancement on the spiritual path is never lost, but continues with you into eternity.
    The Vedanta Scriptures have been with man for millions of years


    nais, and silly young earth christian claim 6000 years or so. you certainly wing.
  5. Standard memberblack beetle
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    23 Oct '10 05:17
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    The process of Self Realization must start with desire for Self Realization, and without the desire, its all up hill.

    Many people inquire into the spiritual life, without the desire and with the wrong attitude, which is self defeating.

    The wrong attitude would be to find fault, or to make argument, or to think they are the authority, and that there ...[text shortened]... any advancement on the spiritual path is never lost, but continues with you into eternity.
    Edit: "This acceptance of the Vedanta teaching as the authority, is what is called the "Leap of Faith" or surrendering, and without this "Leap of Faith" the process does not start."

    Well, it took you only 6 months to admit that the religious mambo-jambo you are preaching is based merely on a blind belief. Hopefully, on your way to your Self Realization, you will understand in some kalpa how deep your brainwashing is and how efficiently your own mind hi-jacked you😵
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    23 Oct '10 05:23
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Edit: "This acceptance of the Vedanta teaching as the authority, is what is called the "Leap of Faith" or surrendering, and without this "Leap of Faith" the process does not start."

    Well, it took you only 6 months to admit that the religious mambo-jambo you are preaching is based merely on a blind belief. Hopefully, on your way to your Self Realizati ...[text shortened]... some kalpa how deep your brainwashing is and how efficiently your own mind hi-jacked you😵
    I am curious, as intelligent as you are, why do you find "the spiritual being of man is the TRUTH of man, opposed to what is called - matter -, or the flesh" not factual?
  7. Standard memberblack beetle
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    23 Oct '10 05:27
    Originally posted by tacoandlettuce
    I am curious, as intelligent as you are, why do you find "the spiritual being of man is the TRUTH of man, opposed to what is called - matter -, or the flesh" not factual?
    The dualism is not factual because it is merely a product of one's mind alone. There is not such a thing as "body" separated from such a thing as "mind", there is bodymind in oneness😵
  8. Standard memberDasa
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    23 Oct '10 10:03
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Edit: "This acceptance of the Vedanta teaching as the authority, is what is called the "Leap of Faith" or surrendering, and without this "Leap of Faith" the process does not start."

    Well, it took you only 6 months to admit that the religious mambo-jambo you are preaching is based merely on a blind belief. Hopefully, on your way to your Self Realizati ...[text shortened]... some kalpa how deep your brainwashing is and how efficiently your own mind hi-jacked you😵
    Your behaving like a fool, the leap of faith is for the beginner who does not believe, so for them to start and be successful they must accept Vedanta as the authority or their study will be self defeating.

    How do they accept Vedanta as authority without prior experience....by surrendering.
  9. Standard memberblack beetle
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    23 Oct '10 10:25
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Your behaving like a fool, the leap of faith is for the beginner who does not believe, so for them to start and be successful they must accept Vedanta as the authority or their study will be self defeating.

    How do they accept Vedanta as authority without prior experience....by surrendering.
    Foolishness is nothing else but to accept blindly an authority as such. Indeed you accepted blindly Vedanta as authority because you did not conduct your own evaluation of the mind in firstplace. And then, indoctrinated in full by somebody else's nonsensical religious preaching that you took for granded, you surrendered completely your originality, you discarded your awareness and you ended up herenow brainwashed and defeated by your own mind😵
  10. Standard memberDasa
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    23 Oct '10 10:57
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Foolishness is nothing else but to accept blindly an authority as such. Indeed you accepted blindly Vedanta as authority because you did not conduct your own evaluation of the mind in firstplace. And then, indoctrinated in full by somebody else's nonsensical religious preaching that you took for granded, you surrendered completely your originality, you discarded your awareness and you ended up herenow brainwashed and defeated by your own mind😵
    You accept your own authority which is no authority at all, and your mind is conditioned to the illusion of the world, and you assume falsely that mind is the highest reality, but the spiritual soul is the creative force and the source of consciousness and awareness, not the mind, for the mind is a tool for the consciousness to use.
    Vedanta informs us that first there is spirit, then intelligence, false ego, mind, ether, air, fire, water and earth,.... so your mind is 4th on the list of elements in this material creation. But you with your self authority have put mind first, and have made error, and this will always happen if you speculate with your faulty mind.
  11. Standard memberblack beetle
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    23 Oct '10 17:31
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    You accept your own authority which is no authority at all, and your mind is conditioned to the illusion of the world, and you assume falsely that mind is the highest reality, but the spiritual soul is the creative force and the source of consciousness and awareness, not the mind, for the mind is a tool for the consciousness to use.
    Vedanta informs us th ...[text shortened]... first, and have made error, and this will always happen if you speculate with your faulty mind.
    I recognize no authorities; I recognize solely accurate and false products of the human mind after having conduct my own evaluation; and I am sure that your religion is merely just another product of the human mind alone, and that it is based merely on blind faith;

    Vendata (the way your Hare Krsna oriented mind conceives it, that is) "informs" solely your spiritual teachers along with yourself and your fellow believers. In fact you in person were merely brainwashed and you accepted without your own evaluation the blind religious beliefs of a person you blindly accepted as authority;

    Now, prey tell, how and by which means did you came to know that "...first there is spirit, then intelligence, false ego, mind, ether, air, fire, water and earth" and that, therefore, my "mind is 4th on the list of elements in this material creation"?
  12. Standard memberDasa
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    23 Oct '10 22:11
    Originally posted by black beetle
    I recognize no authorities; I recognize solely accurate and false products of the human mind after having conduct my own evaluation; and I am sure that your religion is merely just another product of the human mind alone, and that it is based merely on blind faith;

    Vendata (the way your Hare Krsna oriented mind conceives it, that is) "informs" sole ...[text shortened]... " and that, therefore, my "mind is 4th on the list of elements in this material creation"?
    You already know the answer, Vedanta has perfect knowledge and is the only authority on the Spiritual way. And when you were at school, did you just accept the teaching which was offered by the descending method of learning? and now you know your mathematics and history....or did you reject that education and just use your mind to know of these things.

    You just accepted the education from the authority of the school didn't you, so when it comes to understanding the Spiritual, you must accept Vedanta, or speculate with your faulty mind and get it wrong every time.
  13. Standard memberblack beetle
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    24 Oct '10 08:07
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    You already know the answer, Vedanta has perfect knowledge and is the only authority on the Spiritual way. And when you were at school, did you just accept the teaching which was offered by the descending method of learning? and now you know your mathematics and history....or did you reject that education and just use your mind to know of these things.
    ...[text shortened]... itual, you must accept Vedanta, or speculate with your faulty mind and get it wrong every time.
    No. Vedanta cannot be considered the only authority on the Spiritual way;

    A snake learns from a snake, a dragon learns from a dragon and a human being learns from every being. I learned from the Host of Dragons by means of conducting the evaluation of the mind😵
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