Originally posted by vishvahetuIf you try to treat religion as science doesn't mean that it will be science.
It is the fundamental spiritual particle, (spiriton)...you
Let's say that it is science, then you hve to be prapared for the question: What is this spiriton? Can it be measured? What mass, size, spin, and other qualities does it have? What interaction does it has with other particles? You can invent answers that sound as sience, but that doesn't make it science.
You seem to hold science high, yet you don't know much about science. You don't belive in the evolution, you think that the universe is 10 trillion of years, there are a lot of branches that you just believe in.
Do you try to reason in a scientific way, because you hold science as truth and deny your religious beliefs? You redefine religion and science and switch their meaning with eachother?
Now tell me, and show me the result of the scientific experiments about this invention of yours, the spiriton.
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Originally posted by vishvahetuDear Vishva,
To Vistesd
For those who dont know what Vistesd is saying , i will explain;
Siddartha Gautama left home a young man, in search of truth, because he saw so much suffering, and wanted to know why.
He concluded that all suffering is produced by the mind and in the mind, by being attached to things of this world, and by un-for-filled desire.
His ...[text shortened]... dhism is a million times better than atheism, keep well. (and thankyou for your imput)
vishva
I enjoy the fact that you and I have become able to exchange our views, even when we disagree, without rancor.
How different Buddhists use those words “mind” and “no-mind” is often very context dependent. But I think that even students of Zen Buddhism (and not just “outsiders” ) can make the mistake that you properly critique. Seeking some kind of “blanked out” state of mind is indeed an error. As Nakagawa Soen-roshi once put it: “There is no such thing as empty mind; there is just present mind”—that is, a mindfulness that is present to whatever is before it, including thoughts.
Also, our ability to think and conceptualize is very important—as you say, “our tools for enjoying and navigating this world”. Tools! Exactly. But it is when we confuse the work of our tools—including our descriptive and explanatory tools—with reality that illusion kicks in. (That is my Zen view; some other Buddhists would say that phenomenal reality is itself a delusion—for Zen, it is more that the notion of separability results in illusion.) To use another metaphor: sunglasses are very useful tools for protecting the eyes; but when I come indoors, I take them off.
At the level of the mind-ground, or pre-conceptualizing mindfulness, all those tools (except for simple awareness) are laid aside in order to just encounter the real, and to observe how thoughts themselves arise and behave. Meditation is really just unadorned observation.
You are right that the Buddha was concerned with suffering—precisely, “mind-suffering” (not, for example, with physical pain, but with how we react to that in our minds). Different schools of Buddhism have different ideas about what exactly the Buddha taught (though all recognize at least the Four Noble Truths—and likely the Eightfold Path, although that is too many “folds” for us Zennists). I am not a Buddha scholar, and I am more Zennist that Zen Buddhist, though I use the lingo. Zen Buddhists do not generally use "god language"--and, when they do, they mean nothing like "western" monotheism.
Here is a quote from an Advaita Vedantist who was also respectful of Buddhism, Sri H.W.L. Poonja:
“When waves rise, the Ocean loses nothing
and when waves fall, the Ocean gains nothing.”
And—
“The Ocean does not forget that it is a wave,
but the wave forgets that it is Ocean.”
Be well.
To amannion
You have completly validated my point, thankyou, your quote...."i dont want to get god"
So this envious, puffed up attitude, is why you will never get god.
And another reason why you dont want to get god, is because it may turn your little atheistic world upside down.
And since you have supported evolution since you were indoctrinated that way, probably from school, it would be too humbling to admit the error.
So you go on with your stupifying reasoning, that everything was an accident, and you call yourself a scientific person.
If you are one that teach,s this nonsense, then you are abusing your position of power, and I label you a child abuser.
The only people, who support your stand, are ill-informed, egotistical, envious rascals.
Vishva
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Originally posted by vishvahetuIf you are one that teach,s this nonsense, then you are abusing your position of power, and I label you a child abuser.
To amannion
You have completly validated my point, thankyou, your quote...."i dont want to get god"
So this envious, puffed up attitude, is why you will never get god.
And another reason why you dont want to get god, is because it may turn your little atheistic world upside down.
And since you have supported evolution since you were indoctrina ...[text shortened]... only people, who support your stand, are ill-informed, egotistical, envious rascals.
Vishva
The only people, who support your stand, are ill-informed, egotistical, envious rascals.
We need a facepalm smiley 😞
Originally posted by FabianFnasYou foolish little atheist, your Mr Richard Dawkins says when asked how does the species evolve! quote "it is the unseen hand of natural selection"
If you try to treat religion as science doesn't mean that it will be science.
Let's say that it is science, then you hve to be prapared for the question: What is this spiriton? Can it be measured? What mass, size, spin, and other qualities does it have? What interaction does it has with other particles? You can invent answers that sound as sience, but ...[text shortened]... ow me the result of the scientific experiments about this invention of yours, the spiriton.
So you rascal, why dont you ask Mr Dawk head, to study this "unseen thing"and tell us all, what size is it, what is its mass etc.
You are just a blind fool, who is envious and puffed up with material knowledge, and your assumption that everything came from nothing is stupifyingly ignorant, and if you teach your atheistic nonsense, then you a child abuser.
vishva
Originally posted by vishvahetuWhy would I want to reduce my life, to limit my life? How does atheism become envy? To become like you would be abhorent - I certainly don't envy your ignorance.
To amannion
You have completly validated my point, thankyou, your quote...."i dont want to get god"
So this envious, puffed up attitude, is why you will never get god.
And another reason why you dont want to get god, is because it may turn your little atheistic world upside down.
And since you have supported evolution since you were indoctrina ...[text shortened]... only people, who support your stand, are ill-informed, egotistical, envious rascals.
Vishva
Yes, I learned what I know at school and in experiencing life - and yes, I'll continue to do so. And I'll continue to influence others - as a science teacher I occasionally come across evolution.
Why is it that the only people who describe evolution as accidental are the ignorant, idiotic bigots such as you?
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Originally posted by vishvahetuHumility?
To amannion
You have completly validated my point, thankyou, your quote...."i dont want to get god"
So this envious, puffed up attitude, is why you will never get god.
And another reason why you dont want to get god, is because it may turn your little atheistic world upside down.
And since you have supported evolution since you were indoctrina ...[text shortened]... only people, who support your stand, are ill-informed, egotistical, envious rascals.
Vishva
And for the billionth time this assumption that you keep repeating ad nauseum
Evolution = Atheism
is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Check out this wikipedia page on theistic evolution. You might, although i don't hold out much hope, actually learn something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution
Originally posted by vishvahetuI haven't said anything about Dawkin, have I?
You foolish little atheist, your Mr Richard Dawkins says when asked how does the species evolve! quote "it is the unseen hand of natural selection"
So you rascal, why dont you ask Mr Dawk head, to study this "unseen thing"and tell us all, what size is it, what is its mass etc.
You are just a blind fool, who is envious and puffed up with material kno ...[text shortened]... ingly ignorant, and if you teach your atheistic nonsense, then you a child abuser.
vishva
You are a religious little man, denying that you are religious, yoet you use a religious language, hiding it with scientific mumbo jumbo.
Why not admit that your fundamental philosophy is religious, instead of giving everyone personal attacks who don't agree with you?
Learn about science, that's my advice to you.
Originally posted by Proper KnobThis is the last time i shall respond to your attacks.( you are only in this forum to vent your spite)
Humility?
And for the billionth time this assumption that you keep repeating ad nauseum
Evolution = Atheism
is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Check out this wikipedia page on theistic evolution. You might, although i don't hold out much hope, actually learn something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution
The majority of evolutionists are atheist.
This means evolutionists and atheism, are joined at the hip.
And for a person to support both, really means, that they are hedging a bet both ways, to avoid confrontation, and this is why some prominent church leaders give verbal support to evolution, so to appease both sides (its a political manoeuver) and their cowards for not abiding by their alleged faith. (so their support is artificial.)
Also they are twice as mixed up as the rest, for accepting the erroneous beliefs of both belief systems.
Now also, when they do polls on this, it is wrong to include all the people in the poll, as being truely religious, because they arent.....they are rubber stamped religious people, who dont practice their religion, and cant be incuded in the findings of the polls. (the last time they went to church, was for a funeral)
And in reality, most people are closet athiests.
And being religious and accepting evolution, doesnt give any credibility to evolulution whatsoever. (and thats the real issue) so whats with the diversion tactics.
When i answer any questions, I do so with a larger perspective in mind ( a universal approach) this is why some of my responses only seem like they miss the point, but it is your narrow thinking that causes this.
Why do you ask these silly questions, these are the questions of an envious contentious cynical person.
vishva
Originally posted by vishvahetuThis is the last time i shall respond to your attacks.
This is the last time i shall respond to your attacks.( you are only in this forum to vent your spite)
The majority of evolutionists are atheist.
This means evolutionists and atheism, are joined at the hip.
And for a person to support both, really means, that they are hedging a bet both ways, to avoid confrontation, and this is why some prominent ...[text shortened]... ese silly questions, these are the questions of an envious contentious cynical person.
vishva
So pointing out the absurdity, inconsistiency, misunderstandings, fallacies and 'gobbly gook' of your witterings is an attack in your mind? You post something on a public internet forum that is plainly false and i will respond, if you don't like being criticised and asked to back up your nonsense then i suggest you bugger off!!
This means evolutionists and atheism, are joined at the hip
Erm.......no it doesn't.
Originally posted by vishvahetuWho says? I mean, besides you?
There is another reality in nature, different from matter.
It is the fundamental spiritual particle, (spiriton)...you
It is a transendental particle and is ontologically different from matter.
It has conscious property and has free will, contrary to material particles like the electron.
It is only by the presence of the spiriton, that matter ...[text shortened]... ness is localized, and remains so, but both are ontollogically non physical in nature.
vishva
Originally posted by josephwTeachings of spirituality (what i am presenting) goes back thousands of years, and pre-dates the religion Islam and christianity.
Who says? I mean, besides you?
Spirituality is banded together with religion, because the subject is the same (god), but in todays climate,the world religious beliefs have been brutalized, by so many erroneous assumptions, that it has lost its way.
This is why, i want to keep spirituality abreast of all the religions of the world, because if anything, spirituality is the original true teaching for mankind.
Religion today means belief system, and there are probably thousands of religions today, but there is one god. (how could that be)
Spirituality is the science of the soul/life, and belief has little to do with it.
Because there are so many erroneous beliefs in religion, atheisim, has become a real choice for many people, because they find it easy to see the absudity in those beliefs.
What i am presenting, is supported by the scietific community, and T.D. Singh Ph.D and Richard Thompson Ph.D and Michael Cremo Ph. D are presenting this spirituality exactly as i do, and in fact some of my quotes come from them. I do not want to repeat myself here, but if you have read some of my post, then you know something of what i am presenting, and it is not my knowledge, i did not invent it, but i have studied the spiritual way for a long time and I can only be accused of putting my own personality into it, when i present it.
Islam has one book the Koran, and Christianity has one book the Bible, but the Spiritual Sciences have hundreds of books, and they have been around for hundreds of years, and some thousands, for anyone to take advantage. (but who is looking, certainly not the atheists) or religious people.
Many people are presumpuous, when they hear the words, eternal and atma or soul and karma, because they think its about Eastern mythology or something, and they dismiss it, but its not Eastern religion or Western or Northern or Southern, but its the Knowledge of the eternal soul and its teachings are eternal as well, and they will never change, because whats true for the soul today, is true for the soul tomorrow.
I could give the titles of many books, but i am thinking that the atheists that get in this forum, would persue these titles, and before long i will get a million stupid questions from people misunderstanding everything.
The thing is they would read the books or go on line, with a view to find fault, and then make arguement.
So if you have some genuine enquiry, then i am happy to correspond.
vishva
