1. Joined
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    19 Jul '10 04:30
    Originally posted by vistesd
    [b]If you believe that, then you will die in your sins.

    Ah, yes: the final compelling” argument”—the threat. (Not your threat of course, but the threat that you believe in. You’re much too nice a guy to threaten someone for not believing you—or believing in you.)[/b]
    Christians of a certain kind seems to be terrified people. I wouldn't stand having this terror over my neck all the time. I'm just glad I'm not christian.
  2. Milton Keynes, UK
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    19 Jul '10 08:171 edit
    Sounds like the spiriton is something like the midi-chlorian in Star Wars. There are many parallels between Star Wars and eastern philosophy. Did George Lucas study it? 😕

    EDIT: Just read that George Lucas has strong Hindu beliefs and a lot of this has been written into Star Wars. Especially the Yoda scene when Luke lands on Dagobah in Empire Strikes Back.
  3. Cape Town
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    19 Jul '10 08:591 edit
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Back in the time of the writing of the Bible, the State and the Church colluded together, and the State gave credence to the church, by making christianity the one and only religion, but the church prostituted itself, by allowing the State to have a say how this new book The Bible would be written.
    Roughly when do you believe the Bible was written by state and Church?
    Which state are you referring to?
    Do you actually believe that the Church predates the writing of the Bible? Or are you referring to particular books of the Bible?

    This is common knowledge.
    When you say 'common knowledge' what do you mean? Can you point to even one source that supports your claim? If the knowledge is 'common' then presumably you could point to more than one.
  4. Subscriberjosephw
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    19 Jul '10 12:16
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Dear Josheph

    Back in the time of the writing of the Bible, the State and the Church colluded together, and the State gave credence to the church, by making christianity the one and only religion, but the church prostituted itself, by allowing the State to have a say how this new book The Bible would be written.

    The State wanted to have power over t ...[text shortened]... only, and hell for the unbelievers.(which is erroneous)

    This is common knowledge.

    Vishva.
    Dear vishva,


    What you're saying then, is that the transmission of God's word is in the control of man.

    That is your first fatal error, and it is what causes you to believe the rest of the lies.

    Your understanding of the history of God's word your second error. You believe man and not God. The idea that the Bible, in it's present form, was constructed by man for the purpose of having "power over the people" is as erroneous as it gets.

    Knowing Jesus as one's saviour is what makes man free. That is what the Bible teaches in spite of what some men try to make it say.

    This debate isn't about what unscrupulous men do with the Bible, but with the veracity of the Bible itself.
  5. Subscriberjosephw
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    19 Jul '10 12:34
    Originally posted by vistesd
    [b]If you believe that, then you will die in your sins.

    Ah, yes: the final compelling” argument”—the threat. (Not your threat of course, but the threat that you believe in. You’re much too nice a guy to threaten someone for not believing you—or believing in you.)[/b]
    I appreciate your making the distinction vistesd.

    Is it a threat though? In the light of the facts of human history coupled with the facts of the condition of the human race and the obvious depravity of man, I think it's an act of God's grace to warn each of us of the consequences of unbelief.

    Do you really think that the Bible was constructed for the purpose controlling the masses?

    Then so is everything else.


    In a sense it's true that the Bible was written for the purpose of control. Through faith the believer acknowledges his absolute dependency on his maker.
  6. Standard memberDasa
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    19 Jul '10 15:232 edits
    Originally posted by josephw
    Dear vishva,


    What you're saying then, is that the transmission of God's word is in the control of man.

    That is your first fatal error, and it is what causes you to believe the rest of the lies.

    Your understanding of the history of God's word your second error. You believe man and not God. The idea that the Bible, in it's present form, was construc bout what unscrupulous men do with the Bible, but with the veracity of the Bible itself.
    Dear Joseph

    I respect Jesus, but unfortunately the pure teachings have been doctored, to satisfy the whims of the Ruling class at the time.

    This is why the Bible does not inform us of mans eternal soul and reincarnation.

    Everything in this world is in mans hands, and this is why the present world situation is messed up.

    Man has created the conditions of the present world, and man can re-create them as well.

    We do however, have bonafide sripture (vedanta) and God is in the heart of every living thing, as their consciousness and wellwisher.

    vishva
  7. Hmmm . . .
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    19 Jul '10 21:44
    Originally posted by josephw
    I appreciate your making the distinction vistesd.

    Is it a threat though? In the light of the facts of human history coupled with the facts of the condition of the human race and the obvious depravity of man, I think it's an act of God's grace to warn each of us of the consequences of unbelief.

    Do you really think that the Bible was constructed for the ...[text shortened]... ose of control. Through faith the believer acknowledges his absolute dependency on his maker.
    I think it’s important to keep in mind that the Bible is a collection of writings by various authors using various literary genres to a number of purposes over a substantial period of time. (As you know, I do not hold to “divine authorship”, but even so—even if it were in some way direct divine revelation—the point still holds.) Some things may have been written for the purpose of control, others not. So, no, I would not say that, at least not in any general sense.

    I do not think that there is any way to argue the consequences that you speak of are not imposed by God—at least if the consequences involve eternal punishment. However, if you are one that holds that the consequence is simply death (or even if you hold to something like C.S. Lewis’ The Great Divorce), then you might argue that there is no threat at all, simply—as you say—consequences.

    Otherwise, God’s warning is simply a warning about the fate that God himself has ordained for non-believers. And then I think the word “threat” is warranted.
  8. Subscriberjosephw
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    19 Jul '10 23:28
    Originally posted by vistesd
    I think it’s important to keep in mind that the Bible is a collection of writings by various authors using various literary genres to a number of purposes over a substantial period of time. (As you know, I do not hold to “divine authorship”, but even so—even if it were in some way direct divine revelation—the point still holds.) Some things may have been w ...[text shortened]... at God himself has ordained for non-believers. And then I think the word “threat” is warranted.
    Yea!

    The thing is I don't go for the idea that what I believe has anything to do with having fallen for some ancient mind control designed to keep me in fear so I don't buck the state. We don't live in a vacuum or some dark jungle. Fear is for the ignorant.

    My mind is free for the most part. Still working on it. 🙂
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