Originally posted by FabianFnas If we define a square as a polyeder where all corners is 90 degrees, then we come to the surprising result:
Yes, there are square triangles!
Draw a triangle with corners at (1) North pole, (2) at the point where Greenwich meridian crosses the equator, and (3) the point of the equater 90 degrees east of point 2.
This triangle is a polyeder having al ...[text shortened]... ees.
Assuming the definition of a square, above, is correct, then there are square triangles.
hehe...good shot Fabian...good shot😉
But yeah I mean the generally accepted notion of square and triangle 🙂
Originally posted by zeger55 the answer to your question is, "you are stupid."
by asking a question like this, you have obviously not thought about what God is.
God is outside of logic. God created logic, it was a thought he made, (he who is outside of logic), and put us in it. By asking him to make something taht is inside of logic, that breaks logic while still sustaining logic, you receive the answer, "you are stupid."
If, for the sake of discourse, I accept my friend’s definition, then we can move on from there. That does not mean that the question of definition does not arise in subsequent discourse with others.
If you ask: “What do you mean by X?” And I say: “I mean such-and-such by X.” And you say: “That’s not how I understand X.” Then we have to sort ...[text shortened]... s that we all need to hold each other’s feet to the fire when it comes to how we use such terms.
sure, if one explains the definitions of his words then there is no problem. that is how slang arises. how new words are invented etc.
problem arises when someone uses words with other meanings than the common ones and doesn't signal that fact.
Originally posted by Agerg Who thinks their god can make these things? (square triangles that is) Or isn't sure whether it can or it cannot?
I don't know what the fuss is all about. God cannot do anything that is logically self contradictory. He cannot make trees that are whales , he cannot exist but not also exist , he cannot decide that 2+2=4 and also 2+2=5 , he cannot give a man freedom to rebel against him whilst at the same time guaranteeing that he will never rebel.
He cannot create rocks so big that he can't move them , there's a lot he can't do. He can't defy basic pure logic.
Originally posted by vistesd I am in the non-theist group. I am a non-dualist.
EDIT:
My whole posting on this thread has been to support the logic of Agerg’s opening question. Your post about poly-whatever squares is well-taken. I just didn’t want any dualist-theists to take comfort from your challenge to Agerg’s example.
I do not think that theism (what I, in the interests ...[text shortened]... example, as opposed to physics).
I have never made an anti-science argument on these threads.
Don't worry nobody would take comfort from it 😉
Originally posted by knightmeister I don't know what the fuss is all about. God cannot do anything that is logically self contradictory. He cannot make trees that are whales , he cannot exist but not also exist , he cannot decide that 2+2=4 and also 2+2=5 , he cannot give a man freedom to rebel against him whilst at the same time guaranteeing that he will never rebel.
He cannot crea ...[text shortened]... n't do. He can't defy basic pure logic.
What's the problem? I've never understood it.
You are right. And any other claim leads to the conclusion that God is incoherent—in God’s own mind!
Originally posted by josephw You would have to be omniscient to know whether or not there is an omniscient being.
Unless such a being told you so.
It is clear from God's word, the Bible, that God, the creator of all that exists, is omniscient.
Believe it or not.
err, first i must ask where did omniscience issue come from i thought we were debating omnipotence.
omnipotence is easy to debate, it is simply impossible.
omniscience is harder. if god is omniscient what does that do to our free will? if god knows what you are about to do, then you really are destined to do that thing else you contradict god's knowledge. if god knows all the possible things you can possibly do in each of your next seconds but still doesn't know what will you choose, then free will is saved but god's omniscience is thrown in the recycle bin and becomes almost omniscient like he is almost omnipotent.
free will is important in this argument because otherwise we do not have any meaning on this earth, we are all destined on a definite path that leads inevitably to death and heaven of hell depending on what fate destined us to do. free will is paramount for us to be held accountable for our deeds.
Originally posted by Zahlanzi err, first i must ask where did omniscience issue come from i thought we were debating omnipotence.
omnipotence is easy to debate, it is simply impossible.
omniscience is harder. if god is omniscient what does that do to our free will? if god knows what you are about to do, then you really are destined to do that thing else you contradict god's knowle ...[text shortened]... t fate destined us to do. free will is paramount for us to be held accountable for our deeds.
Originally posted by josephw
You would have to be omniscient to know whether or not there is an omniscient being.
Unless such a being told you so.
It is clear from God's word, the Bible, that God, the creator of all that exists, is omniscient.
Believe it or not.
My mistake.
I'll say it again, only differently.
You would have to be omniscient to know whether or not there is an omnipotent being.
Unless such a being told you so.
It is clear from God's word, the Bible, that God, the creator of all that exists, is omnipotent.
Originally posted by josephw [b]Originally posted by josephw
You would have to be omniscient to know whether or not there is an omniscient being.
Unless such a being told you so.
It is clear from God's word, the Bible, that God, the creator of all that exists, is omniscient.
Believe it or not.
My mistake.
I'll say it again, only differently.
You would have rd, the Bible, that God, the creator of all that exists, is omnipotent.
Is that better? 😉[/b]
From which we may infer that given it is "clear" from God's word, the Bible, that God, the creator of all that exists [including itself since it is included in "all"], is omnipotent. You must therefore consider yourself omniscient (since you *know* there exists an omniscient being)...how arrogant of you! 😉
Originally posted by Zahlanzi err, first i must ask where did omniscience issue come from i thought we were debating omnipotence.
omnipotence is easy to debate, it is simply impossible.
omniscience is harder. if god is omniscient what does that do to our free will? if god knows what you are about to do, then you really are destined to do that thing else you contradict god's knowle ...[text shortened]... t fate destined us to do. free will is paramount for us to be held accountable for our deeds.
It seems to me that an omniscient God would have no free will. An all-knowing God would be aware of its future actions. This means that an omniscient God cannot make any decisions and has no power.
Originally posted by Mungi The Fungi It seems to me that an omniscient God would have no free will. An all-knowing God would be aware of its future actions. This means that an omniscient God cannot make any decisions and has [b]no power.[/b]
that is what i was talking about but i applied it to humans. of course god knows what he is going to do because he is the one doing it. if you know all possible futures, wouldn't you pick ahead of time what future you like best especially if you had an eternity to play with nothingness? the thing you are talking about only applies to humans.
and of course there is one other course of action that god's timeline can be other than linear and one-directional. maybe he spans across all his timeline, living in the past, present and future.
Originally posted by josephw [b]Originally posted by josephw
You would have to be omniscient to know whether or not there is an omniscient being.
Unless such a being told you so.
It is clear from God's word, the Bible, that God, the creator of all that exists, is omniscient.
Believe it or not.
My mistake.
I'll say it again, only differently.
You would have ...[text shortened]... rd, the Bible, that God, the creator of all that exists, is omnipotent.
Is that better? 😉[/b]
no it is not better.
why would i have to be omniscient to know an omnipotent being existed? omnipotent has a definite meaning. i don't have to know everything else to prove nobody can be omnipotent by that current meaning.
Originally posted by josephw I'll say it again, only differently.
You would have to be omniscient to know whether or not there is an omnipotent being.
Unless such a being told you so.
It is clear from God's word, the Bible, that God, the creator of all that exists, is omnipotent.
Is that better? 😉
This is not better. How is it 'clear' from the Bible that God is omnipotent? There is absolutely no corroborating data of any form that supports your assertion. There is absolutely no corroborating data of any form that supports the Bible's assertion. It is not clear. What you say is not clear.
square triangles
12 Dec '08 19:12
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